Drive: Ford’s location strategy shifts into high gear

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Spencer Levy
Detroit has a vital place in American history. It's where soul music experienced its commercial heyday, and most notably, it's the traditional home of the US auto industry. On this episode, we visit the Detroit metro area of Dearborn, headquarters of the Ford Motor Company, to hear two local real estate leaders discuss how location strategy and design are helping to drive a new Motown sound. 

Jim Dobleski
As we think about our master plan and the strategy to enable Ford to drive mobility, which is part of our overall vision at Ford and allow people to pursue their dreams. The real estate plays a bigger part in this than it ever has in the past. 

Spencer Levy
That's Jim Dobleski, who began his career in project management at Ford in the 1990s, spent 20 years in construction and real estate, including a couple of years at CBRE, and then returned last fall as the new CEO of Ford Land, the company's global real estate arm. Jim heads a division that oversees as much or more commercial real estate than the totals in many entire cities, a job that's a big part of Ford's revitalization efforts. 

Josh Sirefman
Detroit's amazing. I don't think what we're doing could happen anywhere else for a whole bunch of reasons. 

Spencer Levy 
And that's Josh Sirefman, CEO of the Michigan Central Innovation District, a project backed by Ford. Josh is spearheading the renewal of the Detroit metro area and the wider region through development, adaptive reuse, and other efforts to attract talent and business. Coming up, the Motor City in the 21st century, the real estate business of an iconic auto brand and a vision for a region on the road to reinvention. I'm Spencer Levy, and that's right now on The Weekly Take. 

Spencer Levy 
Welcome to The Weekly Take and we are joined here today by Jim Dobleski. So great to see you. 

Jim Dobleski
Good to see you as well, Spencer. 

Spencer Levy 
And then we're joined by Josh Sirefman. Josh, thanks for joining the show. 

Josh Sirefman
Good morning. Thanks for having me. 

Spencer Levy 
Great to have you. So, Jim, tell our listeners who you are and what you do. 

Jim Dobleski 
So as you mentioned, I'm the CEO of Ford Land, which is the real estate arm of Ford Motor Company. So we have the responsibility to manage the 211 million square feet globally. On behalf of Ford Motor Company, as well as some third-party locations that we have here in Dearborn. So a lot of work going on from the team across the globe right now as we – are in the middle of a transformation within Ford Motor Company and quite honestly, a transformation within the automotive industry, like we've never seen before and likely never going to see again. It's an exciting time to be here in Ford Land probably has the biggest opportunity to impact Ford Motor Company and what we do and the outcomes that we drive than we've ever had in the history of Ford Land. 

Spencer Levy 
Josh, please tell our listeners who you are and what you do. 

Josh Sirefman 
Sure. Michigan Central is a project – I'm biased, but I think it's the most interesting project happening not just in the country, but in the world – catalyzed by an incredible investment from Ford, really the product of a vision that Bill Ford and the Ford executive leadership had. Jim mentions that the automotive industry is in a state of transformation. I think the vision really understood that mobility is no longer an isolated business that can be taken on in silos. And the vision for Michigan Central was to create a singular place where it became an open platform for all kinds of participants and all kinds of companies and emerging companies, emerging technologies, emerging ideas to all commingle and work together. So Michigan Central is a product of this vision from Ford, but we really operate as this open platform. And interestingly, while Jim has this massive portfolio, we operate just this much smaller, but with also the potential for global impact. The project is centered around the iconic Michigan Central train station. It was built in 1913 as this great symbol of the expansion of downtown of the grandeur of the city. And over time became a little bit of a representation of the decline of industry. The city of plight. And so we have this asset that while it's one piece of a bigger picture we have, it's really representative of not just the revitalization of Detroit, but also of its position as the epicenter of innovation globally. So that's what I do. 

Spencer Levy
So, Jim, let's talk about the portfolio for just a minute, big picture and how you are now looking at either building new, demolishing old, retrofitting old. Just walk us through the process of how you evaluate the portfolio and what is your driving goal when you analyze the portfolio, taking into consideration some of the things that Josh just mentioned. 

Jim Dobleski 
There's three big priorities that we have, Spencer. One is around the employee, not even just the employee, but the overall experience that we provide for individuals, whether they're coming into a facility or they're interacting with any Ford personnel in any manner. Two is around making sure that we are really driving an efficient portfolio. On behalf of Ford, I mentioned earlier we have 211 million square feet. About 180 million of that is manufacturing space. The remainder is commercial space and it's important for us, whether they're walking into a commercial site or a manufacturing or industrial site, that they get the Ford experience when they walk in. And that means many different things to different people. And then the third area is really ensuring that as we go through this process of looking at our portfolio, we call it transformational projects and are we really leveraging the transformation that Ford's going through and ensuring that our real estate portfolio aligns properly through the projects that we're doing? So when we look across our portfolio, we have everything you can imagine in a real estate portfolio from hotels and third-party commercial sites and our manufacturing sites and retail and training and everything else. And some of those buildings were built back in the 1900s, some in the 1960s, and some we're putting up right now, like the facility that you saw when you came in this morning across the street. And so it's a variety of, I think, solutions that we need to drive within the portfolio. Some of those earlier-built buildings like the train station, have a great opportunity for us to retrofit them and make them into something that can drive the experience we need today and how we work. And then there's other facilities – that there's no chance based on the floor played and everything else, and the costs that it would take to really retrofit those. So we have a number of buildings that we plan to demo. We have a number of buildings that we plan to refurbish completely, and then we have some brand new facilities going up in our portfolio, whether it's the central campus building called the hub across the street or the two new plants that we have going up in Tennessee and Kentucky. We've really taken a holistic look at our portfolio. And as we think about our master plan and the strategy to enable Ford to drive mobility, which is part of our overall vision at Ford and allow people to pursue their dreams. Real estate plays a bigger part in this than it ever has in the past. 

Spencer Levy
So let's talk now about what you said, the Ford experience. About my Dad's Gran Torino in 1975, and I remember distinctly being in the back seat of that car when I was a kid. Best moments of my life driving through Queens, New York. But then fast forward to today. My daughter, who's 13 years old, points out the Bronco says, “Wow, that's cool”. And so you go back and forward and it creates an emotional connection more than just mobility. It's not just functional. So the Ford brand is evolving. What's your point of view, Jim? 

Jim Dobleski 
You said it. Ford is cool, right? I mean, when I was interviewing for this position, I remember being walked into this building and I thought to myself, wow, this is cool, right? And I also thought, this is not the same Ford Motor Company that I was a part of 20 years ago. And that feeling has really been, I think, everything that I have encountered since I came back, I have had that feeling. There's certain things we still got to clean up and everything else. It's kind of a tired old way of doing things. But man, this is a very different Ford Motor Company. This is a company led by Jim Farley that has a vision and passion and desire to be the best automotive mobility company in the world. And he's going to take us there. And he's got the right leaders in place now. He's pulling people in from the outside, He's leveraging internal talent, And that emphasis on changing the company has led into the emphasis that we have and changing the portfolio to really enable the rest of Ford. And it's just a different feeling. It's a different approach. In the past, it was all about the financials. Now it's about the experience, being mindful of the financials, but about the experience that we're providing for individuals and making sure that they can be the best that they can be and provide the best outcomes and solutions for the work they do when they walk through those doors. And the environment that we're creating is a very collaborative environment. And that means that some people are going to be in the office every day and some people are going to have private offices and others are going to sit in cafes and work when they come in once a month. It's just a very flexible environment that we're creating to allow people to work the way that they need to work today. 

Josh Sirefman 
You know, it's interesting for us, the experience at Michigan Central, it's not branded as Ford, It's not about Ford. It's about the state of industry and the state of work and the state of innovation, if you will. So, for example, I mean, a lot of focus put on the train station. We're right now in the soft opening stage of a building next to it, the Book Depository Building, incredible building, 1923, Albert Kahn Design Warehouse with the classic mushroom columns from that design period. Has been a post office facility. Then it was a Detroit public school storage facility in the 1980s, abandoned by the public school system – roof caved in, six foot piles everywhere of books and weird school supplies stuff, dead body in the basement, the whole situation. And when you come now, it is as good a piece of real estate as anywhere in the world. But it is emblematic of the state of industry, where it's about collaboration. It's about the sharing of ideas. It's about transparency. It's about mobility, meaning lots of things, whether that's advanced aerial mobility, alternative energy, social implications around electrification, you name it. And you can feel it and see it in the way that the physical space supports that work. So while we're not about Ford, in the same way that Jim's describing, we wouldn't exist without that vision from Ford. And so it speaks to an understanding of something bigger than any single company. 

Spencer Levy 
Let's talk about Detroit. And I think Detroit itself is a brand, too, which has improved markedly over the last several decades. How does Detroit, both the place and the concept, play into what you're trying to do downtown at Michigan Central? 

Josh Sirefman
I have a history in Detroit. I actually started my career in the mid-nineties in Detroit. And so for me, it's a return full circle. And in some ways, my participation in Detroit now is an indicator of the ability to pull people in to add to the existing talent base. Detroit is amazing. I don't think what we're doing could happen anywhere else for a whole bunch of reasons. There's an ability to do stuff that – I don't know how else to describe it – that I've just not encountered elsewhere. And that spirit infuses into companies. You see it all the time with, whether it's startup companies or people have an idea and they want to just figure out how to make it work. And that spirit, I think, infuses everything about Michigan Central. We're huge supporters of everything about Detroit. There is a ton that's happening. You know, I think I'm a little biased. I think Detroit's been actually an incredibly vibrant city all along, and we're just layering now on top of that and adding new dimensions to it. But I don't think there's anywhere else, certainly in the country, that what we're doing could happen in the way that it's happening. 

Spencer Levy 
But also, it's fair to say that Detroit did not go through a great period 30, 40 years ago. Population decline, some blight to use your term, Josh, But it was left with this incredible infrastructure, maybe old, maybe decrepit, maybe needed some work, but had this infrastructure to rise again. Am I being too melodramatic in terms of how I say Detroit went through this fallow period and is now coming back? What do you think, Jim? 

Jim Dobleski 
I mean, I think you're spot on right. In the train station itself really represents the rise, the fall, and the rise again of Detroit, right? It was on the front cover of almost every magazine when they talked about how Detroit was in shambles and everything else, and you'd see a picture of the train station. And now they talk about Detroit coming back, and- and you see a picture of the train station. And that's exciting to have that asset be a part of not only Detroit, but tied to the Ford Motor Company, and tied to innovation and creativity and everything that is yet to come from Detroit. 

Spencer Levy 
Mhm. So we talked earlier, Jim, about your choice of development, redevelopment, start new for your facilities. And given that the age of your average facility's 50 plus or minus years old. You have a lot of choices to make. How do you make those choices? 

Jim Dobleski 
Again, I think it goes back to the experience, right? Are the facilities set up? Do they have the footprint to allow us to create an experience that we need within that space. Obviously, financials will tie into that. We're trying to consolidate our portfolio so that people can work closer together. So there's a number of different variables that go into that. But I think the first thing that we look at is does the facility allow us to work the way we need to work? 

Spencer Levy 
Mhm. And I think that part of when people look at adaptive reuse, they look at the concept of green. Is it greener to use an old facility? Well, it is, but if it's not functionally useful for today, then maybe it just doesn't work. I mean, speaking of green, my next car is probably going to be the electric Mustang, I must tell you. So that's definitely a green change. But how much does–

Jim Dobleski
It’s an awesome car. 

Spencer Levy 
It is. It’s another, cool car. 

Jim Dobleski 
(laughing) It is very cool - and it is fast. 

Spencer Levy 
Mmhmm

Jim Dobleski 
Like, wicked fast. You're going to love it. 

Spencer Levy 
Is it Shelby Cobra fast? 

Jim Dobleski
Ah maybe not, but it's fast.

Spencer Levy 
(laughing)

Jim Dobleski
I'm telling you, Spencer. Take it out to the parking lot when we're done. 

Spencer Levy
All right? 

Jim Dobleski
You can get a quick ride. 

Spencer Levy
You should know I would have bought a Shelby Cobra already, except I don't drive stick-shift which is probably blasphemy around here, but I'm telling the truth on this podcast. But let's talk about that green concept and its implementation. Let's start first at Michigan Central, how is green considerations being taken into account as you redevelop the project? 

Josh Sirefman
Well, from a macro perspective, it's good to reuse existing buildings can be very tough also to get them to what we just consider typical standard, from a green performance level now. So for us, we really look at it on a district-wide basis. There are things about the station, there are inefficiencies we're never going to overcome, to be perfectly honest. The only people who build buildings in that kind of shape and form now are casinos, where you have these, like, massive ground floors and towers above. So we really look at it from a, from a district scale. For example, we're building 12 acres of extraordinary public space where the platform was behind the station where you'd go and you’d get onto your train or get off your train, and that will have a whole natural stormwater runoff management system, all kinds of features in there. In our other buildings we're looking at a district wide microgrid for our energy supply. As it turns out, we get our energy all from Ford, and Ford is 100% renewable in energy source already. So we step back a little bit from the building level. Now we are looking at a bunch of different, potential features for the building, for the station itself that we may be able to add on. There's all kinds of interesting technologies out there, whether it's treatment on the windows for efficiency things. But for an old structure like that, it's a battle. 

Spencer Levy
Jim, let's talk about another challenge we're facing right now, particularly in the Office segment, which is the return to work, the hybrid work. How are you approaching that at Ford? 

Jim Dobleski
So working very closely with our leadership, we've made a conscious decision not to have a mandate on return to work at this point in time. And we're really looking to our people leaders to drive the type of return to work that's going to be best for them, and the functions that they perform. Ford has a number of different functions within what we do, and some groups can work from home and are very productive doing that or work from outside the office. While other groups need to be here. So Ford Credit as an example, a lot of their employees are able to work remotely and that's fine for them. But when you have designers and engineers trying to develop a car, they need to be together and they need to be in the space. And so we're really allowing the people leaders to make that decision as to how and how often people return to work and where they do it at. From a Ford Land perspective, our job is to make sure that when they do come in, the-the space is a tool for them to allow them to function and drive the outcomes that they need to drive for their particular job. So we've set up a number of what we call neighborhoods, to allow people to come back into within five collaboration centers here in the US. We have a major collaboration center in Mexico, one in India, and we've got several in both the UK as well as Germany, that we're really drawing people back. And as we start to see the utilization we’ll open up additional facilities. It's a thoughtful process. I don't think we've gotten to where we want to be yet, I don't think anybody has gotten to where they want to be yet in understanding what that real return to work is going to be. But we're learning every day. And I think one of the big things and the ability that we have here within Ford Land is our flexibility to support Ford Motor Company. One size does not fit all. You have to have standards, and we do. But you have to be flexible within those standards because people are working very differently than they worked in the past. And it's an exciting time to be a part of real estate and to understand and really develop the future. 

Spencer Levy
Well, I love the term that you use there, Jim, which is space as a tool, neighborhoods, flexibility. Josh, how do those terms resonate for you, for Michigan Central? 

Josh Sirefman
They're paramount for us and for Michigan Central, we push it a step further. We accept that we're never going to be a traditional office park. We're never going to have commercial occupancy in that sense, and we're leaning into it. All of Michigan Central is based on a membership model, so that if you want to be a Michigan Central for a day, a week, a month, a year, five years, you can be there. If you are growing, contracting, we can work with you in real time to accommodate that. And in addition to that, you get an array of services. You become part of a bigger picture. So we just accept that the foundational starting point is different. And in fact, to Jim's point, we're creating at Michigan Central, a collaborative hub for Ford employees where, as Jim described, neighborhoods where people can go. But this will be another one where people can book space on a flexible basis and use it. But we're also designing facilities that are market facing. So we're embracing this. We think there are shifts that are no longer just trends. I personally think that more and more people will find value in the office, but the relationship to it just becomes fundamentally different. 

Jim Dobleski
As a partner to Josh –  and we’re facility partner to help manage his sites and everything else – Josh has a great opportunity because he doesn't have a “Yeah but,” and what I mean by that is, as we go in and we start to look at putting together a drop in space for Ford people, there's no ‘Yeah, but we still have to follow the standards. Yeah, but we still have to do this.’ We're taking a very different look and it's really exciting for this space to say, what is the most flexible, future-looking type environment that we could put in place down at Michigan Central, allow Ford people to go down there and use it. So Josh gets to test it out; he really is an innovator when it comes to that, and we get a benefit as well from a Ford Motor Company standpoint to say, ‘Boy, look at how people were just sucked in and it was like a magnet for this space where other areas they weren't.’ So it's a great test environment in an environment that is set up to be a test environment, to be innovative. And it's a really exciting opportunity. 

Spencer Levy
So even though we're in Dearborn, Michigan, and we're at the Ford Motor Company, the fact that you have other great car companies nearby helps the Ford Motor Company. It creates a clustering effect. Jim, I want to talk about the clustering effect as you make real estate decisions on where to locate. 

Jim Dobleski
Yeah, So the way I look at clustering is kind of how we are going to work in the future, right, in a very collaborative way. In the past, if you worked in marketing, this was your building or this was your area. If you worked in finance, this was your building. This was your area. Those days are gone, right? We have to cluster people together. We have to have them collaborating to drive the effectiveness and speed at which we have to put out a new vehicle, right. The days of, ‘Hey, the program launch for this is going to take 36 months and that's just the way it is.’ That's unacceptable any longer, right? We have to get cars to market quickly so that they're buying cars. And that's a very different approach from a real estate perspective on how we support that model. So we don't need to have a separate building for all of these different functions or a separate area. We need to create collaboration spaces, clustering-type spaces where it brings people together so that they can make decisions quickly. And it doesn't take three weeks through email or waiting because somebody is on vacation. You're putting teams together, so they're making decisions sitting side by side, right? So decisions that took four weeks before are now taking four minutes because people are sitting there talking and really driving the solution. 

Josh Sirefman
You nailed it. Clustering is exactly right. We are building an ecosystem of companies, doers, entrepreneurs, innovators all around this intersection of mobility and society. Over the next few months, we'll have 15 to 20 companies already and literally from all over the world physically in there and-and focused on an array of different aspects relative to electrification, relative to advanced area mobility, drones, EV tools, relative to two alternative energy sources and all kinds of implications from that; so we're already on our way. And the value proposition is in fact that cluster and the intent is that that keeps snowballing and growing and growing. And that's not about Ford, that's about the cluster itself, and it's about creating a community of people who are, then intersecting with each other in all kinds of ways. And honestly, we'd love to get to the point where people at different companies meet each other and end up leaving and creating new companies there. And we're generating this whole cluster, as you say, of activity all around that. It is literally the core premise. 

Spencer Levy
Very often when I talk about, do you like office or multifamily or industrial? It's like, I don't like any of them. I like submarkets, I like submarkets that have all of those elements that people want to go to that have these live, work, play, and clustering impact. So Josh, do you see new development happening near your project? 

Josh Sirefman
I do, although I would say our impact is going to be broader than just that sort of very local. But I do see that, and we have additional properties that are part of Michigan Central; not all adjacent, but throughout the area. And we think a lot about how we can work with the community around us to activate those to add to the impact both for Michigan Central and for the community. We're already seeing interest in the marketplace around us, and I think we'll only continue to see more. And I think we'll see that actually across Detroit, though, not just in the immediate. We're in between two very vibrant neighborhoods, Corktown and the Southwest neighborhoods. And so we're starting to see a fair amount of development there. But we're also very interested in working with the community to make sure that some of that impact we can also mitigate and make sure that there's a real mix of affordable housing, as part of the communities around us. That we add mixed-income housing around us. Ultimately, the main goal is to create real critical mass of activity and whether that happens immediately around us, in the neighborhoods all around, I think we can be the center point of a whole bunch of vitality. We don't talk or think about Michigan Central as a traditional real estate endeavor. We are creating what I hope will be an incredible place, and it's just sort of a given that that is part of the puzzle that we will have what you would traditionally call amenities. But we also want to be an asset for the communities around us, for all of Detroit, for all our visitors from elsewhere. And that actually I view as part of that clustering of that ecosystem that we're creating, because vibrancy and activity inherently needs to be a part of that as well. 

Spencer Levy
The attraction and retention of labor, how does that play into both your site selection decisions and then your decisions on how to create your sites? 

Jim Dobleski
Yeah, it's an interesting question, especially when you throw hybrid work into that, right? And remote work, labor is a big factor for Ford Motor Company right now. We are heavy with talented engineers, but we are quickly shifting to a heavy technology-based company and that's a very different type of individual. Different locations, different needs and desires and how they work that we have to go out and help really attract to Ford and help bring them in. We're seeing a lot of new hires come on the West Coast. We were in a big meeting here this week and probably half of the individuals in the room were new to Ford within the last three years. So that tells you the type of new individuals and turnover that we're having, while we're still elevating our existing talent. So it's a tough question to answer because everybody's working a little bit differently today. And so it goes back to that flexibility that we have to build into our real estate space. We have some We-Work spaces or some spaces that we just lease for a period of time and allow folks in Portland, Oregon, or in San Francisco to go work out of for a year versus down in Orlando, we built a new facility down there, because we have a cluster of individuals that are drawing from the schools down there. And so it just varies, Spencer is really the answer, right? We have to have that flexibility within our portfolio to bring in the talent where they are and help tie that and connect it back to Dearborn, Michigan; Where in the past, Ford was Dearborn and you just came to Dearborn if you got a job in Ford. Now you have the ability to work remotely and come to Dearborn once a month or once every other month for those collaboration meetings that we need to. So it's a very different environment. We don't have the final answer on it now, but attracting talent and making sure that we can keep them here in an environment that they're comfortable with and they want to work in, that's number one on our list. 

Spencer Levy
Well it's interesting that you started that comment, Jim, about the West Coast. And by that, I suspect a lot of it is in the San Francisco area near Stanford, near Cal, and all those great colleges up there. And that is the way that San Francisco was built. That's the way Palo Alto was built. That's the way that ah-Tempe, Arizona, was built around Arizona State University. I go right around the country, Just point out these little pockets right around universities. And maybe there's a benefit in hybrid work in the sense that you're not wedded to getting just people here. They can work anywhere. And so there may be downsides. And we know all the downsides to hybrid work and work from home, but there are certainly these positives. Josh, what's your perspective? 

Josh Sirefman
For Michigan Central, there's two important themes. One for Ford, I do think there's a belief that the investment in Michigan Central is demonstrative of a different perspective and therefore something that is very symbolic to the kind of talent that the company wants and needs to attract. And I think there is a perception for the company leadership that Michigan Central does add value in the statement, it makes about what the company represents. The second piece I would say is that if you look at what are some of the most important outcomes from the work of Michigan Central, high if not top of that list, is to impact talent for Detroit and the Southeast Michigan region more broadly. If you think about the flight of talent coming out of whether it's University of Michigan, Michigan State, Wayne State, etc, is enormous – to the coast, to Chicago, to other markets now, to Austin and others. And we think our work can help actually start to reverse that trend and really be part of anchoring that growth and that clustering that starts to create opportunity that keeps those graduates and that talent in place. 

Spencer Levy
Josh, I am heading from here to see my son at Michigan, which is a cluster of talent. Do you drop a bunch of students here from Michigan, Michigan State, all the great universities in this neighborhod? 

Jim Dobleski 
Absolutely. 

Josh Sirefman
Yeah, and we have a ton of relationships with different faculty or department schools doing different things at all of the universities. 

Spencer Levy
And now I'm going to ruin today's podcast by telling you I taught at Ohio State University a couple of weeks ago. 

Jim Dobleski
Cut. Cut. 

Josh Sirefman
And it's time to wrap up. 

Spencer Levy 
It’s time for wrap up?

Jim Dobleski
Yeah, we’re done here.

Spencer Levy 
But I mention that because when I was there, I met with their head of real estate, and what they said was they were building. And I know you're not in the life sciences business, but it's high-tech. And they said, we're building 150,000 square feet of life sciences here. And I said, well, ‘Why?’ And they said, ‘Well, because I can't build a million because I don't have the space.’ That's how much large corporations are drawn to these. That 150,000 square feet is completely spoken for by their university, but these big corporations want to come in. So would you say linkages to universities is a key way to attract and retain talent for Ford? And are you putting any of your facilities on or near campuses? 

Jim Dobleski
Well, I will tell you the connection to the universities is extremely important to us, and we're seeing that right now in Tennessee and Kentucky as we try and draw the talent from down there to help staff our plants. So it's a really interesting process that we're going through. And we're actually working with some of the local universities to set up training centers, extensions of their campus, right near or just on or just off of the Ford property to help really drive not only attracting talent, but making sure that we're bringing the best of the best in the area to Ford Motor. 

Spencer Levy
The Ford brand is changing and we want to see it, touch it, feel it. You want the people coming in the front door to see it as well. 

Jim Dobleski
We want everyone like your daughter to say, ‘Ford is cool. I wanna go work there.’ 

Spencer Levy
I think the shift in the mindset of Ford is actually we're seeing that throughout the corporate world of shifting from ‘I make this product’ to ‘I got to think about the community, I got to think about the broader impact.’ That's, I think, a sea change that I've certainly seen in the last several years. So let's wrap this up and, first of all, closing question first to you, Jim. You are the CEO of Ford Land. Where are you today? Where would you like to be in five years? 

Jim Dobleski
We're on a journey, right? And it's going to take us some time to get there. I would say we're probably 25 to 30% of the way on our path here. Unfortunately, I think the destination continues to move right? Those goalposts always move on us and it'll never be perfect. But I would say in five years, Ford Motor Company is going to be a place where our team members and our partners, that help develop the mobility solutions of the future are going to come to our sites and our locations and have an incredible experience that allows them to be more productive than they've ever been in the past. 

Spencer Levy
Now a very Ford-specific question, do you ever have any favorite car, growing up or today?

Jim Dobleski
I love the Mustang. Yeah. Yeah. I've always loved the Mustang. I will tell you, though, the Bronco, to your daughter's point, is super cool. But, yeah, after the show, you're going to have to go take a little ride in that. 

Spencer Levy
Josh, same question to you. Michigan Central today, where would you like to be in five years? 

Josh Sirefman
You know, in five years Michigan Central is, like, truly thriving. In our own way we're also at the beginning of our journey. But in five years that ecosystem, that community is just thriving and vibrant. And in some ways, I think about it as we're no longer talking about how it represents a revitalization or anything because we're so deep in that it's just an extraordinary place. And we're already talking about how it's creating new things and it's the base for all kinds of activity. 

Spencer Levy 
Alright, everybody rock on. And I wanna thank our friends here today at Ford, starting with our old friend Jim Dobleski, the CEO of Ford Land. Jim, thank you for coming back to the show. Great job. 

Jim Dobleski 
Thanks, Spencer. It was great to be here. 

Spencer Levy
And then we have Josh Sirefman, the CEO of Michigan Central. Josh, well done. 

Josh Sirefman
Thank you. 

Spencer Levy 
For more on Detroit and our show, motor over to our website CBRE.com/TheWeeklyTake. If you like what we do, please share our show with your friends and colleagues. We always appreciate your help driving traffic and bringing in new listeners. And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review us wherever you listen. Looking ahead, we're working on programs about a range of topics with timely takeaways for the real estate business and beyond, including big thinking on leadership, disruption, raising capital, and more. On a nuts and bolts level, we'll also cover CBRE’s Global Fit-Out Guide for 2023, a comprehensive analysis of construction trends around the world. That's coming up next week. For now, thanks for joining us. I'm Spencer Levy. Be smart. Be safe. Be well.