Nobody Does It Better: Longtime CBRE leaders reflect on their careers

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Laura O'Brien 
Don't do it, Spence. You're going to make me do it. Take a deep breath. Take a deep breath. 

Spencer Levy
That was part of my bittersweet final exchange with one of the distinguished CBRE colleagues – legends in the business – who we are honored to have on this program. A trio of real estate leaders who are in the process of moving onto new chapters of their lives. On this episode, besides my getting choked up on the air, we celebrate three incredible careers and take one last chance to learn about life and work from some of the best in the business. 

Chris Ludeman 
So I've got my calendar open. Where do I go next? I'm sorry. 

Spencer Levy
That's Chris Ludeman struggling to log in to one of his last remote meetings as a CBRE employee. We helped the longest tenured member of our panel get rolling, but Chris may never need tech support again now that he's retiring as CBRE’s Global President of Capital Markets, the pinnacle of a career that began as a CBRE broker in Southern California back in 1980. 

Bill Concannon 
You're trying to keep them interested in the journey. So anyway, it was a lot of fun. And here we are. 

Spencer Levy
And that's Bill Concannon hinting at one of the secrets to his great success before he logged off the show. Bill was the longtime CEO of CBRE’s Global Workplace Solutions Group, who pioneered the concept of real estate outsourcing more than three decades ago. In all, he spent 38 years with the company, starting with the Trammell Crow Company in 1986. 

Laura O’Brien
Spencer, I can't imagine leaving this company after 33 years and not doing this for all of you, and for you, my dear friend. 

Spencer Levy
And finally, of course, that's Laura O'Brien, whose farewell, as you heard, almost brought me to tears. Laura was a trailblazer. One of the great mentors the company has ever known, an Executive Vice President in CBRE’s Advisory and Transaction Services, who originally joined the company in 1991. Coming up, a virtual roundtable featuring three of CBRE’s longtime leaders on the eve of their retirements: Chris Ludeman, Bill Concannon and Laura O'Brien. We'll start the show by spending a few moments with each of them, and then combine their reflections on the industry at large – and on their own very special careers. Powerful perspectives, important advice, and fond farewells – I'm Spencer Levy, and that's right now on The Weekly Take. 

Spencer Levy
Welcome to The Weekly Take, and I am honored and privileged to have one of my very best friends in the world, period. One of the truly most beloved people at CBRE, Laura O'Brien, join me on today's Weekly Take. We weren't letting her out the door until she got on the show. Laura, welcome to The Weekly Take. 

Laura O'Brien
Thank you. And I wouldn't dream of leaving without doing this. It's been 33 wonderful years at CBRE, affectionately known as the Big Green Machine. I've had two careers here. The first half was a broker. The second half was what we kind of refer to as going over to the dark side, a leadership management role. Both of them were equally fun, and I’m now about to retire after all that time. 

Spencer Levy
Well, first of all, congratulations. And I mean that sincerely. Not only did you earn it, but also because it is a wonderful thing. It's not the end. It is the beginning of something awesome. And I hope that's how you see it, Laura. 

Laura O'Brien 
I would say I do, but I have deliberately made no plan. That sounds kind of odd coming from me, the classic workaholic. But what this is all about is actually beginning to get to know the non-workaholic version of Laura O'Brien. 

Spencer Levy
Well, we look forward to learning about that as well. And hopefully that includes some time on a beach in Maui or Malibu, because I know you have a few places there. But in any event, congratulations. 

Laura O'Brien 
Thank you. One of the things that I want to make sure – if anybody hears my voice today, I would like to say I'm a firm believer in living in two quadrants. One: important and urgent. That's your day job. You have to get those things done. Quadrant one. But quadrant two is your future. Those are the things that are important but not urgent. You don't have to do them. Saving money is one of those. You don’t have to save money today, but someday you'll wish you had. And I've always tried to put most of my chips in Quadrant One, because that's what you have to do, but I keep a few in Quadrant Two, and that's the future plan. 

Spencer Levy
You have no plans for the future, but what would you like to do? 

Laura O'Brien 
Well, Spencer, being the workaholic I've been, and most of you who know me would say, yep, that's Laura. Certainly my family would say that. I've done two things. One, I sat down with my quadrant two list and I looked at it and I said, it's pretty empty. What belongs in there? And I made a list of projects. If I had at the time, what would I do? And all of a sudden 25, 30 things poured out of me. Things I never made time for, like learning how to cook. For God's sakes, I would order in. Why would I waste time cooking? And I made that list. And then I said to myself, well, what else is on that list? And Chris Ludeman popped into my head. I traveled the world with Chris. He was one of my first bosses, and I just love that man. And every time I would look over at him if we were sitting near each other on the plane, he was usually up there in the front, he'd be reading a book, and I'd be thinking, Chris, I know what's on your to do list. It is enormous. And you are reading a book. I didn't have time to read a book. How can you make time to read a book? I never would allow myself to read for pleasure. He read for pleasure. A lot of autobiographies. So this past Sunday I went to the bookstore. I haven't been there in four decades, and I bought books for pleasure, because it's always been the business book or the Financial Times, right? And I bought six books for pleasure thinking about Chris Ludeman and can't wait to read them. 

Chris Ludeman 
What I've tried over time, and when I say over time, I'm saying over four decades, is to attempt to find some equilibrium or balance to remind myself that we're all human. That my professional life was important, but my personal life and my family life and the obligations I had outside of the organization were equally important if we are going to be seen as a balanced contributor to society. I've tried to keep a very level head. I've tried to take the work that we have been asked to do very seriously, but never take myself too seriously. 

Spencer Levy
This guest needs no introduction, not only because he's been a guest on this show 3 or 4 times. Chris Ludeman. Chris, welcome back to the show. 

Chris Ludeman 
Thank you, Spencer. So pleased to be here in whatever capacity I am. Working at CBRE’s all I've ever done since 1980, and my identity was so closely associated with the firm. I've been so privileged to have different jobs, and some of which I succeeded at, and some I failed. But, I persevered. But as you move to a next leg of your journey of both your professional and your personal life, the biggest fear that I have is going from being a who's who to who's he? So, I'm really working on defining “who's he?”, in this next part of my life, but it is exciting. I'm enjoying the change of pace and the adventures to come. 

Spencer Levy
Well, congratulations. I don't think anybody ever saw you as somebody who was all business. And I mean that as a compliment, not as a criticism. You've been the real you as long as I've known you, and I think I speak for everybody. And that's one of your great strengths. 

Chris Ludeman 
Well, thank you for the compliment, and I'll take it. 

Spencer Levy
Good enough. 

Chris Ludeman 
But that's the only person I knew how to be. 

Spencer Levy
That's how you keep it real. And, I think I learned part of that from you. I learned part of it from my dad. And I think that it's the way that's gotten, I guess, you through. It’s gotten me through. But I think more people are learning to do that today. 

Chris Ludeman 
And, you know, we all think about our parents. And you mentioned your father, who I was privileged to know, and I wish I'd known him better. But the times that you exposed me to him, I know from whence you came. But I remember I was probably ten years old, and I grew up in Portland, Oregon. Some know, some don't. I was one of four boys, and I was whining to my mother about something. And I think, again, I think I was maybe ten. She pulled off to the side of the road and she looked at me and said, honey, let's get a few things straight. You're never going to be the fastest. You're never going to be the tallest. You're never going to be the strongest. You're never going to be the most handsome. You're never going to be the most slender. And you certainly aren't going to be the smartest. Get over it now. And you think about, gosh, what mother? She might get thrown in jail for saying that today. But at the time, I thought, you know, she's absolutely right. So I needed to work hard in everything that I ever tried to do, both professionally and personally. And I couldn't take myself too seriously. And I value that piece of advice from my mother, who was as stalwart a person as it is relative to her personal values. That really put an imprint on me. 

Bill Concannon
I’m honored to say that I met Chris about 20 years ago when we were coming together with CBRE. Trammell Crow Company and CBRE. Almost 20 years now coming up on it in a year or two. And he immediately struck me as somebody who is very, very smart, very customer centric, very available with his time, you know. Very willing to sit down and team up around customers. And frankly, that was part of the secret sauce of CBRE, to be able to have access to the kind of resources that Chris was so conversant in. 

Spencer Levy
Bill Concannon, one of the founders of the outsourcing business in real estate, maybe the founder. Bill, thanks for joining us. 

Bill Concannon
Thank you, Spencer. I think you know that I came to this industry through a short career with United Technologies Corporation. They were based in Hartford, and my job with them was to integrate Otis and Carrier and their energy management products to kind of wire them to a central station and call them intelligent buildings. And this is when I got into the industry where my customer at the time, Trammell Crow Company, asked me to join them. So I moved my young family at the time down to Dallas, and that was in the mid 80s. And, I got a role working with them around corporate real estate departments. Our job was to streamline that space acquisition process, to help them commit to lease with us in more locations. And of course, that was before corporate real estate outsourcing was a thing that was not on the management C-suite radar until ‘88, ‘89, when their business literature at the time started to publish articles around core competency and do what you do best and outsource the rest. And Peter Drucker at the time wrote an amazing article in the Wall Street Journal titled “Sell the Mailroom”. And the mailroom was a proxy for more and more people working for organizations would be on the payroll of the outside contractor. You know, business literature shaped Fortune 500 thinking as much then 40 years ago as it does today, and that's how I got my start. A family man. I've got three children, eight grandchildren. I've been married 42 years. That's kind of my start to a career in commercial real estate. 

Spencer Levy
How did you make formal outsourcing its own business? You had initial success, but what was that baby step that got the ball rolling into the multibillion dollar steamroller that it is today? 

Bill Concannon
Yeah, it was in the late 80s. We positioned our efforts. I'd been calling on corporate real estate departments for 2 or 3 years, again as a, almost a national marketing arm. But we continually positioned our efforts to build trust with these corporate real estate departments and spotted some early opportunities to serve them. It was very obvious they were not getting budget. They were not getting budget to hire. They were not getting budget to train staff. The industry at that time were either property managers or brokers and developers, and they were all distinct kind of companies, but they bought across those services. And that was an early adopter called Baxter Healthcare. They had just merged in ‘88, ‘89 with American Hospital Supply, where the smaller company acquired the larger company, and they got C-suite approval to outsource. And we won that Baxter outsourcing. And then 2 or 3 years later, we had landed Travelers Insurance Company, ExxonMobil and Nation's Bank, the predecessor of Bank of America. And by ‘92, ‘93, it was definitely turned a corner where we had built a track record of building trust with these real estate departments. 

Spencer Levy
Well you used the word trust, which is ultimately the most important thing that we can bring to anything. But we really didn't talk about the day to day. Why don't you give us this thumbnail sketch of just the day to day of being in the business? 

Bill Concannon 
Yeah, the day to day was fairly intense. Momentum was measured three deals at a time. If you won two out of three or three out of three, you had momentum. If you lost one or two, you lost momentum. Importantly, not all of our challenges were external challenges, meaning the market factors: understanding how customers wanted to buy and wanted to be served. A lot of them were internal. You know, our brokerage force didn't necessarily trust facility managers to take over their prized relationships. That took a lot of time. It took a lot of internal time. What would happen if we messed up that relationship? And of course, there was a lot of challenges to invest capital to stay ahead of the curve. The dynamic was a bit of a seesaw. Some days it was fighting the internal elements and some days it was meeting the market changes that you had to anticipate and kind of get out ahead of them. But that was part of the fun. 

Spencer Levy
And absolutely nothing was handed to you, the business or otherwise. It was tough every day. How has this changed over time? 

Bill Concannon 
I think that in the last ten years, the business has gotten to be, of its size and the industry, has evolved to the point where it's a predictable way to contract for comprehensive real estate services. That it's now what I would call above the noise level. In the early years, we were fighting for, you know, continued investment and existence until the theory of outsourcing was proven out. But those days are long past, and yes, it has changed for the better. 

Spencer Levy
Chris, what do you think is the biggest changes? Big picture in the business in the 44 years, plus years, that you've been in it? 

Chris Ludeman 
Well, you could cite the obvious about technology and our business moving from, you know, when I started in 1980, right out of college, relationships were so important. Not that they are diminished today, but it was the power of the relationship that could often create the bridge to an opportunity. And if you were to fast forward these now nearly 45 years, that's not nearly enough. Not for the types of things that we've been privileged to work on. Yes, a relationship's important. Yes, trust is important. Yes, being transparent is important. But if you don't marry that with terrific data, with analytics, with teaming your qualitative abilities with your quantitative ones, you just can't be exceptional. And, we've all watched the wreckage of people that were not adaptable over the course of their careers, whether they were in their 20s, 30s, 40s or 50s, or, as I now find myself, in my 60s. If you don't continue to be a learner, if you don't continue to adapt and adopt, I think you're going to be left in the trash heap of at least your professional life and end up being a little bit cynical and angry. So I think that those qualities allow someone today to be as successful in the latter stages of their professional careers as they tried to be in the early stages of their careers. 

Spencer Levy
So let's go back to your career, Laura, for just a moment. First of all, how did you get into real estate? And then we'll go further than that. But just take us from the top. 

Laura O'Brien 
I got my real estate license on a dare from my mother. She was trying to pass the test as a stay at home mom, and she couldn't. And of course, I mocked her as the teenager that I was and told her I thought maybe she wasn't smart enough. So she then dared me Miss Smarty Pants to get my license, and I did, never intending to use it. I accidentally sold a building and thought, well, this is easy money, not, and a 30 year career was born. I went in the commercial door of that company. She went in the residential door. I was 20, she was 40. And about a decade later I left a little boutique firm where I was and joined the big CB commercial. Why? Because I'd outgrown that firm, and I knew that the world was bigger and I needed to be with a larger firm to do that. And I finished my 30 year career in brokerage here at CBRE. But then I made a very different choice. I left brokerage behind, and I pivoted into what then became, somebody asked me how many, I had to count them, nine corporate rules, and it was the first time I'd ever had a paycheck, too, because as a broker, you don't have one of those. So I had to learn a very different skill and grab a bunch of mentors to help me do that. And I finished now 16 or so years, 33 total here with this company, having lived in both worlds. 

Spencer Levy
So 33 years ago, I'm not sure, were we CB Commercial. Were we still owned by Sears at that time?



Laura O'Brien
We were owned by Sears. We were CB Commercial. Actually, we had just spun away from Sears. It was 1991. 

Spencer Levy
Now, as you evolve your career, a lot of our rising professionals who ask, well, what should I do? Should I be a broker? Should I be a leader? Should I be in valuation research? How would you describe when somebody is trying to make that choice, I guess, just as producer versus leadership?

Laura O'Brien 
One of the greatest gifts in life is to really know yourself. And that's hard to do. I think we become more as we grow. For me, I wanted control over my destiny, and I was prepared to take the risk, and I started to listen to a little voice inside my head. And that's what I mean about the voice that tells you who you really are. When you start to listen to that voice, it's going to tell you some things. It's going to tell you that what you're doing may not be what makes you happy. It's going to tell you that maybe you're taking too much risk or not enough risk. And it's going to ask you, is this what you want to do for the rest of your life? And when I could no longer answer that question yes, firmly and honestly to myself, I realized it was time for me to make a change. And that took me five years to admit to myself that I was done being in sales and wanted more. 

Chris Ludeman 
I always admired others, of course, a lot more than I admired myself. So I've often said, and I still say, and I'm trying to change that now in this next stage in my life, that the two greatest motivators in life are fear and love. And in most of my day to day trading environment, I lived in fear. I lived in fear of greater and better competition. I lived in fear of not being able to do better tomorrow than I did yesterday. I think I turned a tremendous corner in my career as a broker when I started to lead. And by that I mean I created strategies that I got clients to buy into. I set expectations which were high, but we did it together. We defined what success looked and felt like. I spent a lot of time on the front-end of engagements, talking about the things that would, could or were likely to go wrong during the course of the engagement. And when those things did invariably happen, they were no big deal and we got things done. The net of that was, I decided I wasn't just going to be enact someone else's directives. I wanted to be seen as someone that was leading and bringing people in these clients along because frankly, I learned pretty quickly the only reason people get engaged, whether you're a lawyer or a doctor or a dentist or a real estate broker is people have this belief, hopefully it's right, that you can do something better for them than they can do for themselves. So when I started to work on these very large, complicated engagements, and many of them are great war stories, I didn't let my age get in the way of my attempt to be extraordinary in my execution capabilities. And my goal, and I used to visualize these things, is when I left the room, the people that I was engaged with would say, how old is that person, in a way that I was doing things and behaving in a way that was not consistent with my age. And you asked the question, Spencer, why did I move from doing what I was doing to moving into management and leadership? And I realized, I was kind of a victim of my own relative success, that at a very early age, I was experiencing and enjoying the fruits of my labor well beyond my age. And then I had a tough time resetting my goals, and I knew that that was probably going to be an economic step backward for at least some period of time. But the thing that made me consider it seriously and then made me do it is I realized I wish I had been led and managed in a different way. And because I had some modicum of success at the time, our leaders just let me run and cleared the path, where what I really wanted was somebody to make me better, help me with business planning, set new goals. And I thought if I could do that for others, that would be a currency that would be very satisfying. That's why I did it. 

Spencer Levy
So, Bill, this is the mentor portion of this conversation. I first want to thank you once again for being a mentor of mine, personally. I know how powerful that was for my career. So thank you for that. But I now want to ask you to expand the lens a bit and just talk to some of the younger professionals today. What do you say to folks that are getting into their careers today and their career path generally, and then specifically for those who are in the outsourcing side, how should they be looking at the future? 

Bill Concannon
I try to learn every day. I tried to read a lot. My recommendations for young people is to read everything you can get your hands on, and try to interpret it in a way that I used to call being adaptively creative. So if you turn the dial 20 degrees, take an idea you read about in a book or hear in a podcast or whatever your preferred method is. Turn it and implement it for your customers. Implement for your own sake, implement it for your colleagues, for your family, and get really, really good at being adaptively creative. And then I also think what we're forgetting in this world of post-Covid, don't forget the power of FaceTime. The power of FaceTime in business and in life is crucial. Nothing like being face to face. Generally speaking, commercial real estate is a complex sale and a long cycle sale. So building trust requires time with people, you know, face to face. That's how you build trust. I've studied it over the years. Trust is built with minimum three hours, one hour meetings each, with people, and it doesn't happen over a phone call, generally speaking. And, I think the third thing I'd say is stay positive. Everybody works hard. Everybody tries to have integrity. But staying positive is really, really important, especially in these times, and keeping the communication lines open. 

Laura O’Brien
Mentorship. Mentorship should actually be intentional. And I will tell you right now, if you ask someone in this company to be your mentor, chances are they will say yes, but you have to make the first move and you need to know three things. Number one, you need to have something to tell them about you that makes you stand out a bit. It might be something you did, you know, athletically, it might be something you did in your education. It might just be what you're doing now, but something about you that, believe you me, makes you special in your eyes. Number two, you need to know what you want. What is it that I want to work on? Maybe it's obviously get ahead in your career, but it might be a special skill you want to learn, presentation capabilities, business development, something about the business, even. And number three, you need to pick out a mentor who actually is that or exemplifies what you want to become and tell them that. Tell them about you. Tell them what you want and learn. And tell them why you picked them and asked them to be your mentor. Chances are you're going to get a big yes on that. 

Spencer Levy
And I think that's a great way to describe it. But also, I think one thing you may have left out there is mentorship is a two way street. Basically, when you have a mentor, many people say, oh, the mentor is going to tell me everything. In my experience, certainly working with you, it's a two way street of learning from each other. Is that a fair way to put it? 



Laura O'Brien 
Spencer, I'm glad you mentioned that. Actually, the mentor probably benefits as much as the mentee. So the mentee has a responsibility to make the conversation happen, drive the agenda ideally, but the mentor grows in wisdom. The more you have to put into words what you've learned how to do, what you're working on yourself, the more that conversation comes out of your head and actually becomes real for you, the mentor, as well. So both parties benefit. 

Chris Ludeman 
When I started as a producer and industrial and sales worker, I mean, you could do anything. I mean, we didn't have a sophisticated capital markets practice, so said another way you could help somebody find a piece of land. You could help them by giving them suggestions on how to design a building. You could lease the building. And when the time came, if it did, you could sell it. So you kind of could hit for the cycle. A sophisticated capital markets approach came later. Now, I happen to be a young person coming out of college, but people have just started. And quickly I realized that we were all calling on the same people because we are all starving. And I decided to change. I decided to, and I used to walk the streets of these industrial communities in and around downtown Los Angeles. And I kind of noticed that not many people, not many senior people, were doing that because they'd done that. So, but I saw a lot of my, I would say newer tenured competitors, whether it be with our own company or with other companies doing that. And they were calling on small tenants. But I determined pretty quickly that large occupiers were largely avoided because newer people were afraid to call them. And I then focused all of my energies on larger companies. And if I was lucky enough to get a crack in the door, I knew I could take a senior person with me because I had no credentials. And I did that time and time and time and time again, and then worked those transactions until I could really stand on my own two feet. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, which lasted probably took me a year and a half or two years, I was involved in transactions that were much larger and more complicated than I deserved to be involved with, but I learned faster, and I also learned that these larger opportunities sharpened my skills and separated and differentiated me from my peer group. So I was fortunate to do better, faster, which I think credentialed me in a way that was quite unique. 

Laura O'Brien
As you advance in your career, you begin to pick your head up. And for a while, you're focused on yourself. How do I improve? How do I get better? How do I learn how to do this? How do I gain my confidence? It's really all about you. And as you move down the road, you begin to realize there's more to this life than just me. There are others that I can learn from and also help. And you pick up those people along the way, and sometimes you put them down because they graduate and sometimes you take them with them. So as I round the corner here today, there are those that I visit with once a year, twice a year, once a quarter, once a month, once a week. And now I'm graduating all of them here tomorrow. But, what I would say is, text me any time, folks, and I'd be very happy to help because I'm not going anywhere. I'm just stopping working at CBRE. 

Spencer Levy
Bill, let's take a step back on you personally, if you don't mind for a moment. And I say this with respect. You were a college football player for the Providence Friars. Not only were you the center, but you were the captain of the team. Tell us how you started off, and maybe how some of your college football played into how you see the world of business. 


Bill Concannon 
It's fun to think back. I'm a trustee at the college today, and I'm very proud of their progress. But, and again, you know this from competitive sports ventures, a game plan and a business plan are very similar in a lot of ways, right? The big deal to be prepared and go into a game on a game day with confidence. And it's a team sport on both ends. A lot of it gets down to where you understand your matchups from a competitive point of view, the competitive circumstances that you're in around a particular pursuit or a particular execution with that pursuit. The same is true in business. When you're leading a team and listening to your people and your customers. When I was playing college football in the 70s, I was an offensive lineman. I was the center. And when you're a center, you have certain responsibilities to call out the blocks and to organize the group. And it was a fun group. A couple of us, not me for sure, a couple of my teammates made NFL tryouts. For sure not me, but we had this learning together as a team where we when we went after things, we went after it to win it. And, I think that's where there's a useful comparison to business in sports. There, you know, you’re required to pick yourself up, pick your teammates up. But it's also a lot of fun to win and a lot of fun to make adjustments in real time. So there's lots of similarities, as you know. 

Chris Ludeman
Well said. And one of the things that I also thought and I learned over the years is, while everybody wants to be popular, true leaders are not bound by popularity. And I strove, and I hope I accomplish this more often than I didn't, to make principle based decisions as opposed to decisions based upon popularity, because principle based decisions at the moment can be unsatisfying for some. But they endure because sometimes you have to look beyond, you know, doing a spot market, so to speak. And if you make a decision that may be unpopular but based upon the proper principles, more often than not you'll be rewarded for that. But if you make a decision based upon your own popularity or need for popularity, it generally will end up in a very bad place. So, those are lessons that I've learned that I've tried to maintain. 

Spencer Levy
We're speaking not just the young professionals that are in the outsourcing business from the service providers side, but we also have professionals on the client side. How should they handle today's market given the challenges we see and what advice would you give them moving forward? 

Bill Concannon 
You know, I think that one of the things that humbles all of us is when we see organizations or people or boards lose trust. And I would say for customers to lean into these partnership opportunities in our industry to drive more value is a really profound thing. We've gone through phases of building a business that's now large and global, to where the best leaders out there have a way of humbling themselves to figure things out. But you can't figure things out without strong leadership. Invest in the things that are really important to the company and stay committed to those investments. CBRE is kind of what it is today because of leadership of some tremendous people. And of course, Bob Sulentic at the top of that list. He stands out as someone extraordinary in my life. And there are others. But I think when you get your shot in life, take the shot because you may not get the ball again. That advice goes for younger generation, older generation, customers, suppliers… It's just the way I feel. It's the right way to live. 

Spencer Levy
Well, Laura, one of the things you told me was that a career isn't a ladder. It is a jungle gym. Some days you're on the monkey bars, some days you're on the slide. Some days you're on the tire swing. Looking back, is that something you would advise others? 

Laura O'Brien 
You know, it's interesting. Most of my career found me, or so I thought. But I was recently asked, how did you navigate all those roles? And, Spencer, you know, many of those, you didn't come looking for. They found you. How did you navigate that? And what I realized is I was making myself marketable without realizing it. So one’s career, you can climb straight up that tree trunk all the way to the top. And there's many ways of getting there. But honestly, if you try hard and you learn how to do it, you can climb pretty far, or you can jump onto a branch and explore that, or jump from that branch to another tree and explore that. And sometimes that's a lateral move and you're not gaining money or title, but you're gaining…. I like to think of it as you're making your box bigger, and the bigger and bigger your boxes, the more you can do with it. And that's hopefully the career experience I've had. 

Spencer Levy
Chris, what is the single biggest thing you're going to miss the most about your career at CBRE, and what is the thing you're going to miss the least? 

Chris Ludeman 
I would say the thing that I'm going to miss the most is our industry, as I have experienced it over these decades, is filled with very interesting people and characters. Stimulating minds, stimulating people, fun to be with and for the most part very self-starting. So entrepreneurial irrespective of how institutional they might be. It's an industry that I think has a fair degree of optimism, and it's fun to be around uplifting, optimistic people. And I'll miss that, because in a typical day, I may have spoken to 20 or 25 of those types of people. And I've noticed during even during this transition period that I've had in the last 45 days, that drops dramatically. What I will miss the least is as we have walked our professional path, sometimes you find people that take a little bit too much “vitamin I”, and forget about the importance of “vitamin we”. And I found the least satisfying experiences with those that were too self-promotional, too focused on themselves, and without proper balance and regard for the importance of success earned with and through others, as opposed to on one individual's merit. I found when I did experience those people I became discouraged because I reflected on whatever small successes I had, and if you really get honest with yourself, those successes were not earned alone. 

Spencer Levy
So, Bill, this is the wrap up question here. Any final thoughts you’d give to our listeners today? 

Bill Concannon 
Yeah. Just, you know, if you have a career in commercial real estate, whether you're a broker or a services provider or a customer, just commit yourself to the career and invest in yourself and keep working hard to be a great service provider and advisor to your team. Take good care of your people. 

Spencer Levy
So Chris, after 44 years, what do you say to folks getting into the business today? Is commercial real estate still a great career path that people should follow? 

Chris Ludeman
I believe it is. I believe it is one of the true meritocracy kinds of businesses that remain. And obviously we have lots of different business types within CBRE, but I believe today as strong as I believed when I started with it that if you are stronger, better, work hard, you are not going to be limited by your age. You'll be limited only by your ability to perform and to create outcomes. And in many industries that I've observed, there has to be a hierarchy of age before you get real opportunity. And in our business, it's been my observation that if you're extraordinary or perceived to be so, exceptional in your work ethic, and if you have the ability to lead others in a positive direction, there's no real unnatural barriers to your potential for success. And we all measure success differently. For some it’s how much money or where do I live or how many homes or do I have planes, or all those types of things. But I think the real litmus test is will people follow you? And in our company, people will follow great leaders who espouse certain values, show the work, do the work, and bring people along. 

Spencer Levy
Well on behalf of The Weekly Take, but more importantly, on behalf of me personally, thank you, Chris, for coming out today. Thank you for everything. 

Chris Ludeman 
You're very, very welcome. I'm privileged and honored to do it. 

Spencer Levy
Bill Concannon, on behalf of The Weekly Take, thank you so much for coming out today. 

Bill Concannon
Thank you, Spencer. Thank you very much. 

Spencer Levy
Well, Laura, on behalf of The Weekly Take, thank you. But I don't often do this, and I've never done this before. On behalf of CBRE, congratulations. And I ask everybody…. 

Laura O'Brien 
Don't do it, Spence. You're going to make me do it. Take a deep breath. Take a deep breath. 

Spencer Levy
I ask everybody to applaud Laura O’Brien. 

Laura O'Brien 
Thank you. For all of you I haven't met, glad to meet you now. Spencer, I love you dearly. I hope this goes in the recording. You're one of a kind. 

Spencer Levy
Thank you. Laura. Well, I guess it comes from the song My Way from Frank Sinatra. Regrets? I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention. But apropos of that song, My Way, did you do it your way? 

Laura O'Brien
Boy, you stumped me with that one, Spencer. Wasn't expecting it. 

Spencer Levy
Well, that's okay, Laura. Look, but basically what I'm going…. 

Laura O'Brien
Well, I'm going to answer it because you asked for it. You asked it. I'm going to answer it. 

Spencer Levy
Okay. Go ahead, Laura. 

Laura O'Brien
If I did it with integrity, if I told the truth. If I did it, what I said it was going to do. If I went above and beyond. If I cared for the person in front of me. If I learned along the way. If I gave my all. And if I didn't. Then I turned around the next day and gave it then. Then I would say that's the way I would want to do it. Was that me? Well, history will judge me. Will it be me going forward? I certainly hope so. 

Spencer Levy
With those wise words, we hope you enjoyed this walk down memory lane with three admirable folks, each of whom indeed did it their own way. As we say goodbye to them, we'll continue to welcome you every week with fresh episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon, YouTube music, and more. There's also more content available on our website at CBRE.com/TheWeeklyTake. We hope you'll subscribe to the show, leave a review or send us your feedback wherever you listen. And follow us on LinkedIn, too. We'll be back next week, turning our eyes and ears back to the wider world of commercial real estate, including a look at the workplace scene in Japan, where office seems to be working in ways you might find surprising. All that and more coming soon. Thanks for joining us. I'm Spencer Levy. Be smart. Be safe. Be well.