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Spencer Levy
It's not every day that one of our guests on the air admits to underselling an idea to preserve a competitive stake in a market with strong potential. But we're about to reveal one such open secret. On this episode, a thriving overseas market, a capital city that's the heart of a regional comeback story, a place where some see significant opportunity after times of distress.
Juan Pepa
I don't want to oversell it so that there is not that much capital that comes to compete against us. But it's a very good ground where to apply the American attitude of making things happen.
Spencer Levy
That's Juan Pepa, a Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Stoneshield Capital, a global investment firm with more than $5 billion of assets under management, operating in a range of industries. A native of Argentina based in Madrid, and a former partner and leader of the Spain practice at Lone Star Funds, Juan describes Stoneshield as a sharpshooter, focusing on southern Europe for institutional clients across the continent, in the U.S., and beyond.
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
Supply and demand, strong fundamentals. We are seeing big transformations in the real estate sector.
Spencer Levy
And that's Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero, a CBRE Capital Markets veteran who joined the company in 1995. Today, he serves as President of both the company's Spanish and Latin American practices. Coming up, our show returns to Spain's capital for insights into international real estate investing with a focus on Spain and southern Europe, a region that's changed in ways that might surprise you. Madrid y más. I'm Spencer Levy, and that's right now on The Weekly Take.
Spencer Levy
Welcome to The Weekly Take. And I am delighted to be here in Madrid, Spain, for our second recording of an episode of The Weekly Take, with two of the leaders of the Madrid real estate community. Starting with Juan Pepa, who is the Founding Partner of Stoneshield Capital. Juan, thanks so much for coming out today.
Juan Pepa
Thank you, Spencer. Big pleasure.
Spencer Levy
Great to have you. And one of my oldest friends in the business, Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero. Adolfo, thank you for coming out.
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
So good to see you, Spencer. Very glad to be here with you.
Spencer Levy
So, Adolfo, when we started working together back in the GFC period, it's fair to say that Spain went through a really tough time: over leveraged, a lot of defaults. But it has come a long way. It is now a terrific place in which to live, work, and play. And as Juan has talked about, invest. What changed over the last 15 years to make Spain an attractive place to invest?
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
Well in a way it’s probably very much related to fight for survival. It was such a drastic change of the conditions and it took really long to recover. Part of the things that we had to do is basically to restructure the whole financial sector, moving from 50 banks to probably 10. That's something that is tough to do. Then we kept benefiting from a very good infrastructure. We have very nice cities with good infrastructure, well-connected, some of them in beautiful areas in the coast. And obviously tourists have always been there and has kept better and better, which has helped to create some resources, some of these europe investments. And I would say probably from the real estate point of view, also having very, very good expertise. We have great people like Juan here joining us, on the investor kind of element, on the developer, on the lending, which has helped to, I think, to create better products. All that with a good demand that didn't have enough supply has allowed us to be doing quite a good job for the last few years.
Spencer Levy
And Juan, what's your perspective on Spain's recovery evolution? What were the elements?
Juan Pepa
I would say a healthy financial system, which is what we achieved with very healthy banks, under-allocated to real estate. But staying disciplined in the 10, 15 years of negative interest rates, in not opening up the balance sheet in an irresponsible way, the country has gone through a deleveraging process, which means that no bubbles have been created on how much the assets are worth. You add into that in which Spain, with Portugal, we are the Florida of Europe. With the same audience, even more than the U.S. What you have, with lower taxes, an affordable cost of living, insanely good health system, security, no wars, a good legal framework. As Adolfo was saying, good infrastructure, which is already invested. There are no bottlenecks in order for you as an investor to profit from those macro and micro dynamics. And it has helped us today to be the highest growing economy in Europe and even growing more than the U.S.
Spencer Levy
Tell us, how would you define southern Europe? What is southern Europe?
Juan Pepa
Look, in the countryside, we’re the most active in southern Europe. It’s Spain. It’s Portugal. It’s Italy. Greece, we love it, but it's a bit more far away, so we have not yet put our flag over there. 10, 15 years ago, you may recall these countries used to be called the PIGS. These countries in the southern part of Europe are the highest growing economies, growing more than the northern part of Europe, the historical markets like Germany or the UK. Spain is even growing more than the U.S. I don't want to oversell it, so that there is not that much capital that comes to compete against us. But it's a very good ground where to apply the American attitude of making things happen, in a region of the world which is less competitive in terms of capital, to be allocated into the different asset classes.
Spencer Levy
You used the acronym, this is not derogatory, you used the acronym PIGS, which is Portugal, Greece, Spain. Does the I stand for anything or is it just...
Juan Pepa
It was Ireland. Also an amazing, high growth economy today.
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
Another great country. Well, I would emphasize that I think Juan, Felipe, and Stoneshield, the company, is a very good proxy or example of these sectors that are benefiting from supply and demand, strong fundamentals. We are seeing big transformations in the real estate sector, as in many other sectors. And actually there is big growth on living strategies, all kinds of livings: affordable, specialized, flexible. And they are really, really executing very fast and at this pace. We are doing, as well, life science and innovation, which might kind of strike us, maybe not the usual suspects when you look at southern Europe. Actually, we are seeing a niche, but a strong niche, and we are seeing that the benefit of good universities and actually the lack of really good supply, even in a moment that maybe in the U.S. is probably a bit more oversupplied, we are finding a strong appetite. Another good example is the digital economy and the data center space, where Juan has been very active, as well, and very successfully.
Spencer Levy
Well, the life sciences sector is one that has been, I don't want to say boom and bust in the U.S., but it was boom and not doing as well. Let's go with that. How is the life sciences industry here versus what you might see there?
Juan Pepa
Yes, I'd say we own the largest life science and innovation platform in southern Europe. It's called Deeplabs. We have more than 20 buildings. We have roughly a 30% market share in this country, in Spain, between Madrid and Barcelona. What I would say is the parallelism to the bust that is happening probably in places like Boston in the U.S. today. It's first, from the fundamentals perspective, it may surprise you, but after the U.S., the country that is the most friendly for clinical trials is Spain. That's very important for the big pharma companies. Second, the VC funding industry really never existed, I would say, in Spain, and probably even in Europe. It's non-material. So who are our tenants? They are the big pharma companies. The largest tenant is a $35 billion market cap, a German pharmaceutical company called Bayer. They don't rely on a couple of serious A, B, C, back to A fundings of tickets of 20, 30 million dollars or issuance. On the contrary, they're very profitable tenants and they spend a lot of R&D to further grow their business. So it's flourishing when you add into that the rents that they pay into our platform. They're 50% cheaper than the rest of the continent in Europe, or 150% cheaper than in more consolidated or mature markets like Oxford or Cambridge in the UK. You provide a really valued proposition. The nearshoring trends are here to stay. So it's a very good, profitable and good karma business that we own with Deeplabs.
Spencer Levy
One of the major trends we see in life sciences in the United States is the most successful ones are on or next to university campuses or research hospitals. Is that similar here?
Juan Pepa
Absolutely. The triple helix. So our platforms are located right next to the university campus that provide the talent, right next to the hospitals and the research centers, which the European funding subsidies flows. And as a consequence, you have the clustering of all the big pharma companies next to them, which they are the ultimate tenants that pay for our premises. So yes, it's happening.
Spencer Levy
And this word clustering. There's a lot of ways I could describe that word. Live, work, play is one way to do it. But really the nexus of economic activity, which may be in a new place. I would say that the nexus of economic activity when Adolfo and I came up in this business a thousand years ago was the central business district. But now we're seeing it move a bit to maybe near a university, near a hospital, near a sports stadium. How do you see it, Adolfo?
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
Well, I can tell you we have a big initiative around sports and leisure generally, and definitely education and health. These are major trends. We are having less kids, but we are investing more in them, definitely in Europe. And we are seeing that, as you say, centricity in sports stadiums. It's a perfect platform to attract visitors, people that are in there, people that have fun there. We are seeing concerts here in the Real Madrid Stadium. Now, the NFL with the Miami Dolphins are coming here. So it's just, as you said, you know, an excuse to provide fantastic spaces where things happen. So it's not any more restricted to CBD or office. Definitely not.
Spencer Levy
Now, we did some work around the sports stadium. What exactly did CBRE do in connection with the Real Madrid Stadium?
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
The private equity industry is investing very, very strongly in sports in general, but in football in particular. They are financing a big program for LaLiga in Spain. And interestingly enough, a lot of that capital is going into real estate. Upgrading the stadiums, but thinking that the stadium is not anymore just a stadium. It is much more than that. So the hospitality element or the impact of housing in the surrounding areas, training grounds, as well, which is another dimension. So basically we are seeing a fantastic opportunity to look at this space, upgrade it, and transform it into something much more than a place where you play football. And that's great.
Spencer Levy
And I think that's a global trend. And I think that I've seen this just about everywhere. In Salt Lake City, Silicon Slopes Soccer Stadium. If you go to other cities, they're growing around these sports stadiums. So while the sports is great, it's cool, it's what we all follow. I think it's sports leading to a real estate story, or maybe vice versa.
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
A bit of both, definitely. Definitely.
Juan Pepa
With my partner, we always say we're not that smart, but the best copy-pasters. And then we are the best at executing those thematics. We own another platform, which is the largest one in southern Europe, in the student housing sector. 5 or 6 years ago, we nearly had 15 million euros of assets. Today, 1.2 billion. So we multiplied it, I don't know, eighty times in not such an easy environment. And we benefit on what you're saying. So, for example, one area in the north of Madrid, Madrid is a big city. When you go in Europe, you have, I don't know, 8 million inhabitants. It's one of the largest metropolitan cities. And we went down to Miami. I'm not a fan of Real Madrid. I'm a fan of Inter, in….
Spencer Levy
By the way, this is an audio only show. You'll note that Juan got a little aggressive there. Pointed at my scarf that said Real Madrid. But it's all good, Juan. All good.
Juan Pepa
So in Miami, you have this area, which is called Wynwood. And we took one neighborhood in the north of Madrid that we fully reconverted. And we are even calling it Wynwood, in honor of the copy-paste of the best ideas always coming from the U.S. And we offered affordable living for students that decide to move to an area like Madrid to study for six months.
Spencer Levy
So you're calling your Spanish neighborhood Wynwood?
Juan Pepa
Absolutely. And we are offering the services that you mentioned: amazing gyms, restaurants, sports. You know, we’ve got a basketball school opening in the neighborhood. So we're developing our residences with basketball courts. At the end of the day, you're offering a product that your clients need to be able to pay and enjoy it.
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
What we are seeing, as well, is that these strategies need a capacity to operate. So these are investor-operator led strategies. Maybe it’s worth mentioning, as well: Senior living as a clear trend in parallel with the effect in Florida, in the U.S. Of course, as we said, southern Europe, and specifically Spain, benefits for good infrastructure, for the climate, for the lifestyle experience. We have 25% of our population over 60, which is very young, we all know, but it's 25%. And actually there is no formal supply, formal product for people that are getting just a bit older, but they're perfectly fine, and it could be actually Spaniards. That's a big part of the population. And of course, people coming from outside of Spain as well. So I think the live, work, play for that specific segment of age is becoming quite interesting and Juan is quite active in that segment indirectly, as well.
Spencer Levy
So student and senior housing?
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
Correct. Both ends.
Juan Pepa
Absolutely, yes. As Adolfo was mentioning, we also own a large stake in the largest homebuilder in Spain. We deliver between 2,000 and 30,000 apartments every year. And as part of their new lines of businesses, together with CBRE, we're launching a joint venture program to build senior living homes, similar to what it would be if you are living in the north of the U.S. and you want to move down to Florida to get the better weather, play some golf, and it's getting a lot of traction.
Spencer Levy
So from the U.S. perspective, remembering the global financial crisis, Spain went through a terrible time. Has southern Europe turned the corner economically? Are we now clearly on the upswing from 15 years ago, certainly from Covid?
Juan Pepa
Look what happened in the last 15 years, and when you compare it to other markets that suffered less in the global financial crisis. You take the case of Spain, and in the last 15 years with interest rates that were negative, the country went through a deleveraging process, which means that in today's new rates environment, in the last year and a half or so, there has been less pain in the system. You can still get a local bank to finance you development, fully spec CapEx at 150 bps margin. That's because they’re excess, as I was just saying, is because the exposure to real estate in their balance sheet, it's not like 50% like a regional U.S. bank, or the 25%, which is the average in Europe. It's less than 10%. They're under-allocated, super healthy. So yes, 15 years ago we were here with Adolfo. We were probably the largest foreign investors in these countries, and we were called the rescuers of the real estate sector. But today, the environment, it's a very healthy growth environment in which what you try to do is you try to match maybe some other people's pain at your entry by owning the leading operating platforms, creating some alpha for your investors.
Spencer Levy
And let's follow up on this point, Adolfo, that Juan just made about the cost and the availability of debt for construction. A construction loan in the United States is probably costing you SOFR plus 3 to 500 basis points on a good day. What do you see here for cost for construction loans today, and availability?
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
I mean, generally speaking, I think it's important to understand what Juan is playing about. Really, we need to build. There is really a very attractive fundamental imbalance between demand and supply, especially in kind of residential living. So the banks are being quite tactical and strategic, as well, in order to get back part of their exposure into real estate. Of course, some of them start with more sort of investment product, less risk. But in Spain, we have double growth of people wanting to buy a house as compared to the supply that is available. So we really need to produce it. The risk is low. We are selling very fast. We are renting very fast. It's basically an affordable segment. So, yes, we are saying, as Juan said, some people, you know, using the specs of 150, which is probably on the most aggressive part, but definitely 200, 250, it's kind of normal business for a mid-sized developer.
Spencer Levy
Let's dig into the student housing space a little bit more specifically. There's obviously life science, as we just mentioned, being near hospitals or near campuses. Obviously, student housing needs to be on campuses or right next to it. Tell us about how that business works here in southern Europe versus traditional housing.
Juan Pepa
Absolutely. It's an old industry. You look into the U.S. and it got developed maybe 30 years ago. Then in the UK, it’s always one of the most mature markets across this side of the Atlantic. You have roughly 2.2 million students in England and you have 800,000 beds of PBSA students. Let's move forward down into Europe. We have roughly the same number of students than in England, but we only have 120,000 beds. We are seven times less supplied. And I understand that you have in places like in England, which is an amazing education, you have this attractiveness from the Asian community to go to study and graduate from Oxford. Okay, but Spanish is one of the most spoken languages in the world. So as Adolfo was saying, it’s all about demand and supply. The provision ratios are not even 7% in southern Europe, which means everything that we have been developing, which is a lot, we have been filling them up in less than one month over the last 5 or 6 years. Our NOI growth like for like in the last couple of years has been over 9% net. So even if there was a bit of a widening of yields, the value of our asset has been positive. It's all about demand and supply, and when you have an imbalance.
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
And what I would say on top of that is also the kind of supply. I mean, what people are expecting now as students is different to what they used to have definitely ten years ago, even five years ago. I think the product is much better: the way it is operated, the amenities it offers, the flexibility. Very important that it offers this as well. And by the way, this is sort of a southern Europe strong topic, but it's a European theme. And I think we are going to see more, and I think Juan would agree with this consolidation in this space. And I think we are going to see that the better and the bigger will get some economies of scale, in southern Europe, and I would say in Europe as a whole. Do you agree Juan?
Juan Pepa
Yes. We own micampus, that has over two years managing student housing. It's the leading one in southern Europe. But now what we're really looking forward is to consolidate it through M&A. And our vision is to take this company from the 12,000 beds that we have today to 30,000 beds. So if we can consolidate into roughly 4 to 5 billion euros of assets in the next five years, it would be our dream.
Spencer Levy
And student housing, life sciences, senior housing, data centers are all operational real estate, and there is a cost associated with that. It's harder to manage those than it is other asset types. And that's, I guess, part of your consolidation, sort of, to get these efficiencies. Is that a fair way to put it?
Juan Pepa
Yes. With Filipe, my partner, we say sometimes we dream, it’s like the old days, you will just buy a piece of land, build, sign a lease on a 7% type of net yield, then you will sell it in a five, your business is less operational. We have more than 2,000 employees only in this country on the ground managing each one of our four high conviction thematics in which we invest. I think it gives… I would say it's a lot more work and you need extra skill sets than just managing real estate investments. You're dealing with people. But at the same time, we sleep better at night because we feel that our assets are being protected, that if there will be some extra jewels, some extra NOI through the GRI or keeping the OpEx at bay, we are in control and we don't depend on someone else.
Spencer Levy
So data centers. It seems like the perfect asset class right now because of artificial intelligence, because of crypto, because of demand. But there's a limiting factor, and the limiting factor is water, power. How does it work here in Europe?
Juan Pepa
Adolfo, one day, not even… it was before probably the crypto and the AI came to us and said, look, no one is doing it in this part of the world. You should. We followed his advice. We have delivered so far, to our investors multiple times of their money in terms of profits crystallized, so it has been a good call. In the U.S., it's having earnings where you have the most demand from the hyperscalers. when you’re moving to Europe, which roughly the market in any asset classes or in all asset classes is half the volume of transactions you have in the U.S…. They're happening in Europe. In Europe data centers, it was only being done in what is called the FLAP markets: Frankfurt, London, Amsterdam, and Paris. Those locations, the shortfalls that you are saying in terms of availability of water and power are right there. You're not going to get, or it's very hard to get, any new licenses to develop data centers on those FLAP markets. And so what we are seeing is that all those big hyperscalers are coming towards us. Why? As an example, Spain. If we're going to be referring to southern Europe, it's because probably 50% of the electrical grid in this country today, even more, it's coming from renewable sources. So the dream that maybe Joe Biden had, here it's already a reality. It's the sun and it's the wind. You have a lot of the Atlantic coast and you have the sun. We are a big player into the sector, into the power land banking, getting the permits, the licenses, connecting to the cable, and having a fully secured power availability. And we work alongside the big hyperscalers throughout the development or going vertical.
Spencer Levy
And when you're talking about renewables, Europe has a much bigger nuclear footprint than we have in the United States, particularly France, but it's everywhere. How does that play into the power story?
Juan Pepa
I think the nuclear in France, yes. In other countries, because of maybe psychological effects, is still to be unlocked. But once you're reading the press, you know, these small nuclear plants being funded by this big tech guys. It will not take that long until we can replicate it in this part of the world.
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
It's an open debate. We have a good footprint of nuclear energy. For example, in Spain, they are getting older, and now the debate is should we keep them so we grow them? Actually, there was a very dynamic conversation just days ago. Some of the investors and some of the operators are saying, look, we would be very happy to use this capacity to develop this digital infrastructure that is going to need wind power. So the debate is there. I think the most important part in terms of power in Spain is that it is very diversified in terms of revenue sources, which gives you optionality.
Spencer Levy
Now, if I'm correct, each of the countries that were mentioned in southern Europe, each of the so-called PIGS, they’re all members of the European Union. How does being members of the European Union make it easier to invest in Spain versus Portugal versus Ireland? Is it seamless or are there still cross-border issues?
Juan Pepa
Look, I would say it's easy. It's easy. They are not massive differences if you are going to invest in the Nordics, in Benelux, which you see a whole lot in Belgium, or in France, or in Germany. What you require are the skill sets of having the rainmakers on the ground, being able to distinguish what is a good deal from a bad deal, and once you buy them to develop, not having or mitigating the typical development risk. Of course, construction overruns, sometimes delays. But from a pure regulatory perspective, you don't have massive differences among the different countries.
Spencer Levy
Adolfo, congratulations. I know that you now run, you lead our Latin American efforts, in addition to our Spanish efforts. I think there's a lot of positive stories today in that region. But I think Argentina is the next country up. Do we see upside in Argentina today?
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
Definitely. I mean, a bit early to confirm, but definitely all the data that we have, all the trends are super positive. It's a big transformation not exempt of some risk for sure, but it is naturally a very wealthy country. It has a lot of talent. We have benefited here in Madrid, getting a lot of talent from Argentina, but those Argentinians are very likely to go back when the right conditions are there. And when you combine a big country, a big population, they have natural resources, they have good talent, with the proper governance and with some ambition, why not? We are behind it and we are going to facilitate the growth as we did a few years ago in Spain when we were suffering.
Spencer Levy
What kind of strategies are we recommending to our foreign investors that do want to come to Spain, in addition to teaming up with rock star locals, investing in commingled funds, investing in publicly traded securities? What are, kind of… I'm a big investor from the U.S. I'm meeting with you, Adolfo. What do you say?
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
I mean, we are seeing many different strategies of companies. Well, now we are definitely seeing depth, you know, expanding the capital markets aspect of the supply is still a big opportunity in Spain. It is still very much dominated by the banking industry. So we continue to see opportunity to deploy capital. We have seen that this sector in real estate has been penalized heavily. Now it's a bit better, but I think there is still value behind at least it’s sector, opportunity to invest at a good entry point, maybe stay there, maybe consolidate, maybe delist, depending on what is the situation. We are looking at some opportunities like that. Hospitality, hotel, is still a very, very strong market. Actually, last year was the best year ever in terms of number of people visiting Spain, but also in terms of expenditure. And that trend doesn't seem to be stopping. We have a footprint that is improving and is getting upgraded, but I think still there is a lot of room for consolidation in concept and in sort of lifestyle hotels. So I guess we should have a conversation specifically with a specific investor and find what suits best along the lines of having the right strategy and the right partners, either on equity or on the debt side.
Spencer Levy
When you mentioned the debt side, that brings back flashes of the global financial crisis to me of buying the bad debt of Ireland, the bad debt of Spain, and Lone Star was doing some of that. Is that ship sailed? And are people now working through that supply? Maybe that's not as good of an opportunity today as direct real estate investing?
Juan Pepa
What I would say is yes, we're very big at doing that. We're probably the biggest and uber successful. There are no NPLs being originated to today. This is not, you see…
Spencer Levy
And an NPL stands for a non-performing loan, just...
Juan Pepa
A non-performing loan. There are no portfolios available from the southern European entities, and there will be none in this cycle because of the low leverage that they have been lending for the last 15 years. And because there was not a bubble of the value of the assets they gave in the last 15 years, as well. So the opportunity is what Adolfo is saying through operating real estate to develop that product with equity, and you have a debt available for that, and you fill them up in one month at very attractive and levered net yields of cost. You only take in continental Europe, so not just southern Europe, the opportunity on student housing, only on that sector, you could deploy $90 billion of equity, capital, and you will not reach the provision ratios, demand and supply, of what you have in England, in the UK today. So there is a big opportunity in terms of quantum to deliver more product without hitting, you see, levels of over construction.
Spencer Levy
I'd like to now take out the crystal ball. It's been a 15 year journey, I think it's fair to say, for Spain to get to where it is today. Where do you think Spain, southern Europe is going for the next 5 to 10 years from a real estate perspective?
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
As far as you focus on where there is fundamentally very strong demand, and probably low levels of supply, you should be fine. I think we have described some areas that are very obvious right now for the next five years. Anything related to living, in general, but more specifically, affordable, city, residential, multifamily, especially in big cities. Some segmentation. We talk about student housing and we talk about senior living. I think you really have a market that is willing to trade, for sure. We haven't talked so much about retail, which has been suffering in the last almost ten years. Actually, it is one of the probably best values that are available. And we have to remember that we are talking about an economy that is very open, has a lot of tourist activity and leisure. And actually, Spaniards and visitors, they do like to shop, especially when it's kind of with a good supply that is central, that is dominant, that has a component of pleasure. So probably the best cash on cash return that we've seen in the last two years. And I think that would probably be the case for the next years to come.
Spencer Levy
Juan, how do you see the next 5 to 10 years of opportunity in southern Europe?
Juan Pepa
What I would say, and I’m comparing what you were mentioning about the previous cycle post GFC, we were all investors. We started the deployment in the northern part of Europe. We all went to Germany. I used to live in the airport in Frankfurt. My doctor was in that airport and he used to buy my socks over there.
Spencer Levy
That is the key, by the way. If you're an international investor, where you buy your socks is where you do your most business.
Juan Pepa
Yes. It was at Frankfurt airport. Then we all went down to invest later in the cycle. Our humble view is that given the strength of our balance sheets, of our sales, our profitability in the cycle, the big players from the southern part of Europe will expand towards the north of the continent. So it will reverse the dynamics of what we've seen 8, 10, 15 years ago. So we will become one of the largest European players. That's our goal.
Spencer Levy
Well, that's a great way to end it. How history sometimes repeats itself, but sometimes reverses itself, because of the changes in dynamics of the different countries where they are in the cycles.
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
Absolutely. Thank you.
Spencer Levy
Well, on behalf of The Weekly Take, Juan Pepa of Stoneshield Capital. Juan, terrific job. Thank you for coming out today.
Juan Pepa
Thank you, Spencer.
Spencer Levy
And my old friend, Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero. Adolfo, President of our Spanish operations, President of our LatAm operations. And I knew him when. And Adolfo, great job.
Adolfo Ramirez-Escudero
Great to be here. Lots of fun. Thank you very much.
Spencer Levy
With thanks again to our guests from across the pond, for everything from their overseas investing advice, to that recommendation of where to buy stocks in the Frankfurt Airport, we hope you enjoyed this episode. If so, we hope you'll share the show on the podcast platform of your choice, as well as rate and review us wherever you listen. It really does help us build our audience and create even more interesting shows. You can also contact us and find more content on our website, CBRE.com/TheWeeklyTake. In the coming weeks, we look forward to featuring other markets, including Chicago and Miami, as part of our ongoing Shaping Tomorrow’s Cities series, and also more asset-focused insights, such as an episode on self-storage that we have in the works. So stay tuned. Muchas gracias from Madrid, and we'll see you next week. I'm Spencer Levy. Be smart. Be safe. Be well.
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