New York State of Mind: CBRE's Annette Healey, Darcy Stacom and Mary Ann Tighe Share Their Stories of Breaking Glass Ceilings

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Spencer Levy
I'm Spencer Levy and this is The Weekly Take. March is Women's History Month, and we're doing something a bit different to celebrate that. On this episode, the first of a two part series we feature of voices and perspectives of three unique women. They are groundbreaking, inspiring and among the most accomplished executives in commercial real estate. First, we'll get to know a woman who has got real estate in her blood but dared to break with family ties to embark on a career of her own design. Darcy Stacom, chairman and head of CBRE’s New York City Capital Markets Group, a pioneer and a driving force in some of the biggest transactions in real estate history. 

Darcy Stacom
Pretty sure here in New York City, I'm on the jungle gym every day and I mean every part of it. There's a climb, a slide, a spinning Merry-Go-Round.

Spencer Levy
Next, we'll get up close and personal with Annette Healey, who spent her early career braving the Boys Club of Wall Street in the 1970s and joined CBRE to build an impressive client base in real estate as executive vice president of our Tri-State Regional Retail Brokerage Services Group, Annette will share colorful memories of moving to the Big Apple and what she had to overcome as an ambitious young businesswoman back in the day.

Annette Healey
We rented an apartment and we were grilled by the landlord who was convinced that we were airline stewardesses and he was not having any airline stewardesses in the building would not have it. So we had to get affidavits from our parents. 

Spencer Levy
And we'll close the show with Mary Ann Tighe, a former art historian and media executive who we are very happy to say, made a career move into real estate to become one of the best in the business. She's now served nearly 20 years as the CEO of CBRE’s New York Tri-State Region, building a network like none other. 

Mary Ann Tighe
It's so funny that you're saying that because it has never failed me. That's the craziest part of the story. People ask, like the most obscure questions. I'm like, yeah, I'm sure I can find somebody who can do that. 

Spencer Levy
Coming up, New York stories in three acts. Personal and professional portraits of women on top of the commercial real estate world. We're going a little longer than usual, but trust me, it's worth it. That's right. Now on The Weekly Take.

Spencer Levy
Welcome to The Weekly Take, starting off today with somebody I'm really proud to say is my friend, my colleague Darcy Stacom. Darcy, who was our first guest on The Weekly Take a year ago. And before we begin today, Darcy, I just want to say thank you on behalf of The Weekly Take without the foundation of your terrific very first episode we did, I don't know, we will be where we are today. So, Darcy Stacom, welcome. Darcy, could you just tell us the journey? How did you get to be Darcy Stacom? 

Darcy Stacom
I think we're friends because we have a similarity of background. I started in market research and found that looking for searching for information and then starting to tie it together was what interested me in real estate. I started in leasing but felt it was, you know, too repetitive of a process and wanted something that had just greater components and pieces. And I'm not saying that leases don't have a lot of components and pieces because they do. But I moved into sales partially because of a dispute with my former boss, my dad. But, you know, there wasn't capital markets when I started. So I've actually watched the evolution of the industry and I've been able to be part of the evolution of the industry. And so my desire to understand movements and trends and predict forward is something that's allowed me to carve out a unique career. And it's a sense when New York City was ready for Times Square or when it's been ready to embrace life sciences, you know, when retail was skyrocketing to, you know, really orbit the moon and then coming back to Earth. So those have all been things that have allowed me to move forward. 

Spencer Levy
Well, Darcy, let's talk about the two elements of that, if we can, for just a little bit deeper. The first is the grounding you had in research as the start to it all was something I tell a lot of folks. But the other word, I want to use you’re here, maybe I'm being a little bit too bold, but I like to use the word courage, if I could, because you did break away from the firm where your dad was. And that's a courageous move as well. So talk about the grounding in research that gave you a knowledge base to do things in the business and also the courage you showed that led you to where you are today. 

Darcy Stacom
Well, look, there's a real benefit in the Internet today, which is that you can get research easily, but there's also a benefit when you had to go get it yourself. And so I think that need to pick up the phone and call people and piece together the puzzle without just having a search engine do it for you is really something that allowed me to get to know New York City and its neighborhoods and its owners and the moving parts. Now, I can use the Internet to go way deeper and get enormous amounts of information quickly. But you also have to recognize a lot of that information is surface and doesn't contain the key facts that are where the trends lie. 

Spencer Levy
Let me jump in there for just a moment, because one of the things I'm a lot of people tell me is like, oh, brokers are going to get displaced by information. I'm like, no way, because human judgment is never been more important in a world of too much information. What's your point of view, Darcy? 

Darcy Stacom
There is just so many layers of information. Operating expense clauses are so different within one building, one major tenant to another, that all of the economics are really when it comes down to the minutia, not at the macro numbers. And that's where I don't think the Internet is going to be able to displace the broker. And by the way, it's all about human behavior. 

Spencer Levy
And the second question I asked is just the again, if you are comfortable talking about just the courage to break away, because I think that is a move a lot of people don't do. 

Darcy Stacom
Look, the break away was about the fact that I was always going to be Matt Stacom’s daughter at Cushman and Wakefield, to move to a platform that was actually creating something actually evolved in to something I was not signing up for, but eventually became this global behemoth that operates like small companies that learn how to be synergistic. That's been really a huge benefit of the move. My father had had a moment in his career where he was offered the chance to become president of a development company down south, and he debated it and finally decided not to do it. And he always regretted it. So I was never as worried about going in to see my father, about leaving Cushman. But the one I was really worried about was the person that had been my mentor from the time he was a lawyer in the legal department all the way up to becoming the president of Cushman and Wakefield. And so to walk in and resign to him was actually the thing that required the greatest amount of courage. But, you know, if you. I've worked with somebody well over the years, and you and you do a nice job and I resigned before I signed, so, you know, he didn't feel like I already it was a fait accompli. It was freeing to do it properly. 

Spencer Levy
One of my great friends and mentors at this firm is Laura O’Brien. And what she says to me is that a career is not a ladder. It's more of a jungle gym where some days you're on the slide, some days you're on the monkey bars, some days you're climbing in the tree house. I think starting from research to leasing to capital markets breaking away, I think your exhibit A that resilience might be the right word for it all. What do you think, Darcy? 

Darcy Stacom
Yes, I'm pretty sure here in New York City, I'm on the jungle gym every day and I mean every part of it. There's a climb, a slide, a spinning Merry-Go-Round. 

Spencer Levy
I well, you know, what they say is if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere and you’ve proven it. 

Darcy Stacom
Thank you and I still learn something new every day.

Spencer Levy
Every day. So I'm going to ask you, Darcy, and if you don't mind me using the title of an article written about you, and I think it was The Wall Street Journal it was the Queen of Skyscrapers, when did you know you made it here? 

Darcy Stacom
Well, I did use that song, by the way, to land my largest listing, Peter Cooper Village Stuy Town, which still stands as the largest single transaction, certainly the United States, maybe even the globe. But I think I knew I had made it when I was on my own and I finally sold a building worth more than a hundred million dollars. And you have to understand, in the 1980s, there was a lot of money, you know, and people started to treat me differently. And that's when I finally actually hired somebody onto my team to work for me. 

Spencer Levy
What do you say to younger women coming up in the business today? 

Darcy Stacom
I think you have to work together as a team. You have to promote each other. You have to understand how the women before you have gotten there, but then recognize that certain things are different because we still don't represent much of the percentage of the workforce versus percentage of the population. We still carry an outsized burden in home care and everything. So the young ones that are up and coming have to figure out how to support each other and argue for their worth so that, you know, they can carve out the level of career that they want. And that's I that's, I think, the key thing right now. 

Spencer Levy
Last question, Darcy. How much has New York changed since you got into the business? How much  has it stayed the same. 

Darcy Stacom
Look, anybody who hasn't been to New York in the past 18 months will gawk at the changes to the skyline. I can still drive in, you know, not having driven in for two months and go, whoa, whoa, where that come from? There is such a massive change. Just the number of skyscrapers, real scrapers up there, you know, a thousand feet, 1500 feet. So that's a big change. Is it still a very neighborhood driven parochial city in some regards? It is. And I think it's a city, though, that's beginning to understand each other a little more deeply, which is a long time coming and something I look forward to with gratitude. 

Spencer Levy
We'll talk a lot more about Darcy's perspective on New York City in part two of our New York story special. And coming up, we'll hear the story of the great Mary Ann Tighe. But first, we turn the mic over to CBRE’s top retail broker, the one and only Annette Healey, executive vice president of our Tri-State Regional Retail Brokerage Services Group, and her firsthand account of climbing the corporate ladder in a man's world. Here's her story and how she broke some glass along the way. 

Spencer Levy
It's an honor to have you here and that and I'm delighted that you're my friend, welcome. 

Annette Healey
Thank you. I'm excited to be here. 

Spencer Levy
So let's start from the beginning, because, as I'm told, that's a very good place to start. Where did you start out and how did you end up at this point in your journey? 

Annette Healey
Well, a very long and winding road for sure. I started out growing up in Vancouver, British Columbia. My father was transferred out there in the 60s. And so I grew up surrounded by mountains and oceans. And my family decided that I needed to go back to the States because they didn't see anybody or any girls up there going to college. So I was shipped off to the Annie Wright Seminary in Tacoma, Washington, back in in the late 60s. And it was a huge, fabulous experience for me. From there, I went to Virginia to college, and I always, always wanted to be involved in the international world, the international markets. I spent a year in Paris while I was in college and worked very hard on a program that was really all about international trade. So when I graduated, I went to Citibank and I was working for them and their International Services Department, 399 Park back in in the 70s. I was actually within the first group that moved over to the new tower, which was behind us at 153 Lexington or East Fifty Third Street. I guess it is on Lexington Avenue. And it was very state of the art building at the time with double decker elevators that nobody could figure out because in those days you didn't have a concierge, you know, pre 9/11, you didn't have all the reception facilities that you have in buildings now. 

Spencer Levy
And the city was different in so many ways back then. 

Annette Healey
You know, in the 70s, New York was a very, very gritty, gritty place. My college roommates came up with me. We rented an apartment two bedroom, two bathroom apartment on the east side. You go into Maxwell's plum and turned right. And there was our building. For two hundred and twenty five dollars a month, if you can imagine. And we were grilled by the landlord who was convinced that we were airline stewardesses and he was not having any airline stewardesses in the building would not have it. So we had to get affidavits from our parents and signatures that we were in fact, not airline stewardesses. And we lived there for a number of years. Then I went to Wall Street once I realized I was being so underpaid at the bank and was a fixed income salesman for a number of years. And I covered London and Frankfurt and my parents lived in London at the time. So I got a chance to see them. And there was the Concorde and it was a very go go, exciting part of my world. But ultimately, when the Bloomberg machines came in and the spreads on fixed income trays became so narrow that you had to have a lot of volume, I exited and moved into a more entrepreneurial role. I was a new mother. I worked for a direct selling company and then ultimately realized I wanted to go back into something that was more professional, more financial. And it occurred to me that leasing, which I was introduced to by a former colleague of mine from Citibank, I didn't really I thought leasing meant like Xerox machines. I didn't understand that you leased space. Can you imagine? And I realized that it was kind of a combination between a fixed income security, but it was more interesting because it actually you could touch it and feel it. So I segued over into office leasing in the early 90s and then was drawn into retail because nobody wanted to have anything to do with retail at that time. So I kind of picked up retail clients and ultimately moved over to what was then Insignia in 2000. And here we are twenty years later. 

Spencer Levy
How did you feel moving to New York City, you know, as a young professional? Was it scary? Was it was it exciting? Was it everything you expected? 

Annette Healey
Well, as I said, the 70s were a gritty, gritty time. Just a little over a year after I moved here, the tabloids screamed, president says drop dead New York. And, you know, as a young professional kind of minding my business doing my daily work, I we were relatively unaffected by it. I mean, we knew. The city was on shaky ground. We knew the Bronx was burning, we knew all this stuff, but it didn't really impact us. We had Studio 54 and we had fun restaurants on every corner. It was little Italian joints with Chianti bottles, you know, with red candles dripping down. I mean, it was very, very loving hands at home, shall I say, in the 70s, as opposed to the more slick presentation that we're accustomed to now. But it was it was very, very exciting. You just felt as though every day your life could change. So coming from, you know, a rural college in Virginia and having been a suburban gal all my life. For me, it was just thrilling. 

Spencer Levy
Well, I grew up in New York, not the city. My dad did live a few blocks from you, though. He had an apartment on 63rd and 3rd at the Renoir house. I remember Maxwell's Plum and all those restaurants right around there. So I. I have some fond memories of the late 70s, early 80s. It was a cool time. But you also mentioned the you know, let's call what it is, the discrimination women faced in New York City in the late 70s. Tell me about some of the obstacles that stood in your way and tell me about how you were able to overcome them. 

Annette Healey
Well, when I was first interviewed for the Wall Street job, the guy who interviewed me had this very exotic office. And besides his chair, the only other chair in the room was a gigantic leather baseball glove. And skirts were quite short in those days. So I was eyeing the baseball glove and I was not at all sure what I was going to do. So I stood during the entire interview. It was it was traumatic. I mean, I literally went in a position where I'd been making like eleven thousand dollars a year to a commission based situation where they gave me, you know, somewhat of a base. But I had to take a lot on faith and I had to build a business. I had to get on planes and I'd get London and knock on doors and to Frankfurt and meet people and build a business. And I you know, I did it was it was I would never be able to do that. I think about it. Oh, my God,. 

Spencer Levy
That's a courageous move to go from a salary position to a commission position. What were you thinking? 

Annette Healey
I don't know what I was thinking. I was just thinking I needed I wanted to be in the Wall Street environment. I felt that it had more opportunities for me. I didn't have any mentors. There was nobody kind of saying, look at this person. She's made a great success here. There was nothing like that. I think it was just I was very curious. I felt that I understood the banking world. I spent a number of years there and I just wanted to try something new. And I knew I couldn't possibly ever make less than I was making at the bank. That was not possible. So from a financial point of view, it was you know, it was not that difficult from a culture point of view it was more off putting the baseball glove notwithstanding. It was a very, very male I mean, my trader called me baby, baby. That was my name. And so it was hard to sort of incorporate the persona of a professional when somebody's yelling across the trading floor, baby, I got a deal for you here. I mean, so we tread lightly. I mean, a lot of us knew at that point and I had girlfriends at Salomon Brothers, at Goldman, at Merrill Lynch, at Drexel. We were kind of dealing with each other on a daily basis. And we knew we could probably sue somebody and get a lot of money because the intrusions into our privacy were extraordinary. But none of us were brave enough because none of us wanted to have that asterisk next to our name. It would have been devastating in those days. So we just sucked it up, kept smiling and, you know, kept on going. 

Spencer Levy
Well, you certainly have kept on going. And now you are one of the top retail professionals, not just in New York, but in the world. And many of these experiences, particularly I better than knocking on the doors thing that you did when you were a bond trader really help you today. What are some of the things that you think back on today when you're speaking to our clients, looking for new deals? When you look back on those experiences, what were the most valuable ones to you? 

Annette Healey
You know, personal relationships clearly trump everything, so developing those relationships, creating that bond, whether it was with investment guys in London or in Frankfurt, you know, I still talk to some of these people. I mean, some of these guys came to my wedding, you know, is just really developing those relationships was critical. And I think that translates into success in any business that if you can literally make people want to talk to you, want to know what you're thinking and just want to have that that connection. It was funny because when I was first considering real estate, this former colleague of mine from Citibank said to me, you know, it's an interesting thing he said there are actually some people out there who like to talk to women. I said, really? So, you know, developing those relationships has been the joy of my life. My clients have always driven me to be better, to move higher, to think things through more carefully. And then those relationships have been sustained as a result of that. So we both grow together. It's a very collaborative process. 

Spencer Levy
When did you know that you made it? 

Annette Healey
Oh, gosh. Well, I think on Wall Street, I mean, building that business, actually, even going back when I was at Citibank, I noticed that the fixed income program that we had was all run out of Switzerland because secrecy concerns and I had a lot of Latin American clients and Central American clients. I said to my bosses, why don't we do something out of the States? Why don't we do something out of New York? Oh, no, the Swiss will kill us. We'll just, you know, our buddies over in Geneva. But one guy looked at me and he said, you know, we should do that. And so we did. And the Swiss were furious. But slowly but surely, we built this up. I have no idea how big that business is now. I'm sure it's billions and billions and billions, but that's what made me feel. And they put me on the trading desk in order to run this business. And sitting there on that trading desk on the I think it was the twenty first floor of Citicorp Tower and looking out over the East River, I thought, OK, this is it. I'm never, ever leaving New York. 

Spencer Levy
That's fabulous. So times have changed in a lot of good ways. Maybe not all good, but what's some of the advice you would give these young professionals today when they are setting their own journey? 

Annette Healey
I think the most important advice I've ever received, and I think about it all the time, is just one step in front of the other. You just keep moving. You're going to have good days. You're going to have bad days. But, you know, if you keep your eyes sort of fixed on a horizon that's slightly further out, it gives you a lot more perspective. I also think I mean, the women I meet here, the younger women are so smart and so accomplished. And so I don't know, I'm just in awe of them. They're my mentors now as opposed to the other way around, because they just seem to I mean, they're women here who have four children and big jobs and they handle it all so beautifully, even two children. I only had one because I knew I couldn't go, you know, do the full job thing and have multiple children. I just couldn't handle it. They are awe inspiring. And, you know, I really think that the next generation is going to see such a great number of women leaders as we're seeing, you know, in the in the Senate, in the House, we're seeing more and more women piercing those glass ceilings in a way that I think is going to be very demonstrably important for our form of government. So I, I just I'm thrilled for them. 

Spencer Levy
Now, that's a New York story. More from Anette next week, along with the return of Darcy Stacom too. But now we turn to a real estate pro we've known and admired for years, really needs no introduction. Mary Ann Tighe, the CEO of CBRE’s New York region. She'll share the remarkable career she's built, founded on the value of learning and perhaps above all, the power of saying yes. 

Spencer Levy
Mary Ann, welcome. 

Mary Ann Tighe
Right back at you Spencer, lovely to spend time with you as always. And I learned from you always. 

Spencer Levy
Thank you. And the first time I met Mary Ann I always tell this story, I was working for a New York City developer, the Witkoff group at the time, and Mary Ann walked into the room sometime in the mid 90s and it was like, I've never seen presence like that in my life because, you know, the Witkoff group was a great developer but was a little bit like the Wild West. And Mary Ann brought order to it all instantly. 

Mary Ann Tighe
It was totally the Wild West. I can remember being in that office. It was, by the way, I got a huge kick out of it because it was so much fun at the same time. 

Spencer Levy
Indeed. Indeed. Well, nobody said the Wild West was all boring. But nevertheless, Mary Ann, thank you for joining The Weekly Take. Why don't you give our listeners a little flavor for how did you get here? 

Mary Ann Tighe
So it's such a long story. I think that I'm going to do it just in bullet points for you. I was born in the South Bronx to a working class family. I was the first one to graduate college. I graduated and I was in Washington, D.C. and I thought I was going to be an art historian. I ended up getting a fellowship at the Smithsonian and ultimately ended up working at the White House. And when I went to work at the White House many moons ago in the Carter administration, I had to sign a paper that said I wouldn't work for anybody I had given a federal grant to for three years after I left the administration. And as it turned out, I became deputy chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts, which meant I gave everybody money from the federal government. And so I knew I wasn't going to stay in the art world when I got out, when I got out, I ended up going into the cable world. In the early 1980s, I started a channel called A&E and had a marvelous, long, successful relationship with ABC Radio Enterprises who effectively subsidize my first 10 years in real estate because they kept me on retainer while I was making no money as a broker. So at age 36, I became a broker and I became a broker because all my other jobs took me everywhere except New York. And I tried to find a career that I could execute while staying home. I had a son and a husband and wanted to be with them. And I came to the Edward S Gordon company when I was 36. I didn't do a single deal for 18 months and all I can say is, I came in in 84, by 1991, I was part of the team that did the largest deal in the United States. We sold first lease and then sold 550 Madison Avenue to the Sony. I was on the Sony side of the deal, AT&T sold it to them, as with all things ups and downs, but pretty much up for the last twenty years or so. 

Spencer Levy
Well, that's quite a story, Mary Ann, let me let me sum it up in one word, which is persistence. 

Mary Ann Tighe
Yes.

Spencer Levy
I want to ask you a direct question, Mary Ann. If you're a young woman professional today with a similar background, could they do it too?

Mary Ann Tighe
You know, I've been thinking about how to find one's way into our profession. And I always think that the way to make yourself valuable is if you can actually be so expert at something, no matter how small it is that people seek you out because they need that thing that you know better than anyone else. And for me and real estate, it was a part of the city that was under leased. Ironically, it became one of the most valuable parts of our city, midtown south. But when I joined in 84, you know, rents were low single digit. And so nobody wanted to troll in that world. And when they had it, they would throw it out to me and say, well, what are the economics of this? I think any kind of specific expertise in any segment of our industry gets you employed, it gets you hired, it builds a reputation. And then I think from out there you should set up ripples. One of the things that I, I think has been such a key for my own career is that I not only know the people in our industry, I know the people in all the concentric circles around our industry. And I must say, I think I learned this in my Washington, D.C. years, that you really want to have as big a network as possible because it enables you to get to the answer or know how the questions should be shaped fast. I have to say that part of my success in real estate is that I haven't waffled around trying to find answers to things. I get from here to there quickly, because pretty much in New York City anyway, it's two degrees of separation, not six. And I should add that, you know, I was the first woman made head of the New York Real Estate Board in 2010. That's directly the result of having made all of those relationships. So I urge people to reach out to architects, developers, project managers, government officials know them all, they all have something to teach you and they all want to learn what you have to share with them. 

Spencer Levy
Mary Ann, one of the things you told me more than once was that when somebody calls you with a question about whether we, CBRE can do something, your answer is always, yes, we can and doesn’t that speak directly to your network of relationships?

Mary Ann Tighe
100 percent. It's so funny that you are saying that because that has never failed me. That's the craziest part of the story. People ask, like the most obscure questions. I'm like, yeah, I'm sure I can find somebody who could do that. 

Spencer Levy
I remember. Boy, this must have been 10, 12 years ago when you helped recreate 42nd Street, when you brought the Condé Nast deal over there into Times Square and then subsequently brought them downtown. So you're not just a understander of New York. You're a creator of New York. When you were bringing a blue chip media company like Condé Nast to Times Square, which quite candidly was still transitioning, what were you thinking and how did you see the vision for Times Square at that time? 

Mary Ann Tighe
So I had had the great benefit because of my background in philanthropy as being the deputy chairman of the arts endowment. I had been on the board of the new 42nd Street, which was basically focused on 42nd Street and Times Square. And I'd been on that board for many years as a, you know, a charitable activity. And I understood deeply the rebuilding of that district as well as the economic incentives that the public parties would be willing to convey. I understood what could be created and Condé Nast got a great, great deal of bringing all six of their locations together to that site. I had also been working long enough with Condé Nast to make all their leases coterminous to a single date. So I was able to produce a transactional scale that had no debris in its wake. You know, typically people have straggling expiration dates and whatever. And in this case, it was a nice, tidy package. And then shortly thereafter, I moved The New York Times into its new tower at 8th Avenue and 41st Street, the first building they had been in their old building in 1913. Actually, Darcy Stacom sold the old building for us, I think she sold it twice, if I'm not mistaken, once for The New York Times. And then the second time she flipped it, I think, for Tishman Speyer. And then we put the Times into their new building. We helped them with the architectural selection and then we were agents for the building. We fill up the whole building. We know our way around 42nd Street, that's for sure. 

Spencer Levy
So let's come full circle now Mary Ann and talk about how important it is to have mentors. And if you want to name some of them, that would be great. 

Mary Ann Tighe
When I first started in real estate, you have to understand that my background, I was as I said, I was an art historian and I learned in an academic environment. So when I got into real estate, I asked, I don't even remember who was the first person. I asked, is there a book I should read. This produced gales of laughter OK, that that I thought I was going to get some kind of cookbook and figure out how to do whatever I was going to do. And ours is really a business that you learn by having access to. And now I'm speaking. I should tell you, I'm speaking really about brokerage, but I'm sure it's true in our project management area of building management, etc.. But what you want to do is be there in the room where it happens and watch it unfold. And if you're staying awake, you will learn. And as you learn, you'll be able to transfer that experience. By the way, if you ask me what is the biggest reason, I think work from home will be moderated, it's because I don't for a minute think you can do this by just having somebody join you on a Zoom call. I don't. And the funny thing about mentoring, I find is you don't even know you're mentoring. People will sometimes walk back to me. You did this at the beginning of our conversation just now. Something I said to them. Right. And I will laugh because I don't remember ever saying that to them. But that's what true mentorship is in a way. It's not the lessons you're teaching, it's the observations the mentee is making. And they're taking away those pieces they need. And I know certainly I thought different things for sure from all the different mentors I had. I mean, I had everybody from Edward S. Gordon, the great Edward S. Gordon. And, you know, something I quote of his all the time. I was such a good little girl about wanting to show that I had done everything, all the work, all the stuff, and he would say to me, get rid of this, that, this, that. And I say, why? It's accurate. And he said, don't offer one more piece of information then you need to make your point, because the more you keep loading people up with stuff, the more they're going to find issues, problems, holes, things. He said, make your case, make it tight, make it accurate and thorough, but don't make it bigger than it has to be. I think I use that lesson at least every other day, by the way, I use it for myself. But I will say to my very gifted colleagues, get rid of the appendix, let them ask for it. That was another thing Ed used to always say, you want an occasion for a second conversation, don't give it all in the first conversation. Let them know that you know enough that there's more there and let them come to you because the information will be valued more when they ask for it. I mean, that's the kind of stuff it is there a book with that? I don't know. Maybe there is. Certainly Carol Nelson, who was my closest mentor, Carol Nelson, taught me what I was called the key life lesson, which is rejection is the beginning of a conversation. It means that somebody heard you and they said no. And you're like, OK, now they know who I am. And she was a genius about taking a no and spinning it into a relationship and ultimately into business. So these are things that they're useful, by the way, not just in business, but in life in general. And that's what the best mentors are. 

Spencer Levy
Well a few takeaways here, first of all, in addition to the many things I've already borrowed from you, I'm going to be borrowing the last one as well, because among the many things I do around here, Mary Ann, as I teach public speaking and one of the things I teach in public speaking is you're not there to inform anybody. You're there to influence them. And there's a big difference. So it's a spin on what Mr. Gordon said to you. 

Mary Ann Tighe
Beautiful. So true. 

Spencer Levy
Maybe the right word is persistence. Is that the right word? 

Mary Ann Tighe
Well, certainly a through line in all business any business has to be persistence, because if you're going to crater at rejection, it's not going to sort of get you anywhere. Some of it, by the way, is just waiting for the right moment. That's the other thing. Knowing when you floated an idea, rejected, this is a Carol Nelson. She started this. Right. Ah I'm not interested in that. And coming back eighteen months later and saying, you remember that thing I told you? And they're like, yeah, you know, that's pretty interesting. And realizing that no is no now, but maybe not forever. 

Spencer Levy
Well, we're just about out of time here. Mary Ann I can go for hours with you. 

Mary Ann Tighe
You're such a joy. Everybody feels that way. Thank you so much for inviting me. 

Spencer Levy
We'll have more from Mary Ann Tighe, Annette Healey and Darcy Stacom as we get back in the New York groove next week. These highly successful women will expand on their perspectives of New York itself, a city that each has affected in her life's work, a city they are already working to help get through the pandemic. That's part two of our special series, New York Stories. In the meantime, you can find out more about our show on our Web site, CBRE.com/TheWeeklyTake and let us know what's in your New York state of mind or any other real estate thoughts you might be thinking. If you have feedback or suggestions, please drop us a note as well as subscribe, rate and review us wherever you listen. Thanks for joining us. I'm Spencer Levy. Be smart. Be safe. Be well.