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Spencer Levy
With the end of summer upon us, the traditional end of the summer being Labor Day, of course, a holiday in honor of American workers, we bring you an episode that we've been planning since the traditional start of the season around Memorial Day, when we honor the memory of our fallen military heroes. On this episode, we bring two important subjects together in a discussion about labor and military service, featuring three business leaders who have a proud pedigree of global deployments as leaders in the U.S. armed forces.
Adam Rocke
Companies like the ones that are represented today are looking for talent, and no other better place to look for it than the military.
Spencer Levy
That's retired Col. Adam Rocke, who served in the Army for 34 years and now runs the Hiring Our Heroes Foundation, a program that helps find meaningful careers and economic pathways for service members, veterans and military spouses.
Pat Rios
I can honestly say that my current service at the Cleveland Clinic, I feel like almost an extension of the service I had when I was in the military. The only difference is, my uniform's different.
Spencer Levy
That's Pat Rios, who spent 30 years as a commanding officer in the Navy's Civil Engineer Corps before transitioning into civilian life seven years ago. He's now the Executive Director of Buildings and Design for the Cleveland Clinic, managing a global real estate portfolio. And rounding out our roll call of officers is one of CBRE’s own, retired Col. Michelle Butters, a 28 year veteran of the Marine Corps.
Michelle Butters
I just wanted to lead people – lead Marines, now lead in the civilian world – so anything that would help me do that. And so understanding what was out there, getting to know people, was very key to the success of moving into the right roles.
Spencer Levy
Michelle started her military career as a supply officer and is now a sector director in Industrial and Logistics for CBRE Global Workplace Solutions. Coming up, a salute to service in military and civilian life, two vital areas of the American workforce and navigating the labor market of our time. I'm Spencer Levy, and that's right now on The Weekly Take.
Spencer Levy
Welcome to The Weekly Take, and we're so excited to have Adam Rocke, Senior Director of Hiring Our Heroes. Adam, welcome to the show.
Adam Rocke
Thank Spencer, very much, for having me.
Spencer Levy
Great to have you, Adam. And then we have Pat Rios, Executive Director at the Cleveland Clinic. Pat, thanks for coming out.
Pat Rios
Hey, thanks for having me, Spencer. A pleasure to meet you and Adam and Michelle.
Spencer Levy
Great. And then as noted by Pat, we have our own Michelle Butters, Senior Managing Director of CBRE. Thank you for coming out today, Michelle.
Michelle Butters
Thank you, Spencer. And thanks for the opportunity just to discuss this important topic with you and the others today.
Spencer Levy
Great. Well, as mentioned at the outset, we've been working on this episode for a while and we're just psyched to have it today. So, Adam, let's ask just a opening question of how you got into the military.
Adam Rocke
First of all, you know, go Army, beat Navy. I’m going to throw that out there early, there. But my father was a Marine. We'll get to that. But we have a long lineage of military service that dates back to World War I with my great Uncle Saul, all the way through to my father, who was a marine raider in Iwo Jima. And my brother was in the Army. And I say, after high school, frankly, I wasn't ready to go to college right away. I knew I wanted to serve in some way, so I enlisted in the service and I was a young infantryman, but I realized that I want to go to college to get my degree. And I wanted to be a leader. And so that's what I did for another 30 years. So just like Michelle and Pat, I got an opportunity to continue to serve in uniform and retire at the rank of colonel, which I'm honored to have served at that level.
Spencer Levy
Great. So Pat, would love to hear how you got involved with the military.
Pat Rios
My story, a little bit different. I'm a son of immigrant parents and my family's from Argentina originally. But my dad studied medicine in the U.S. and that's where I was, I was born here. And he always wanted to join the Navy, tried to join the Navy during the Vietnam War, where they were drafting doctors; didn't let him in because he was a foreign national. But, he loved the Navy and always wanted to be part of it. And one day, believe it or not, when I was maybe ten years old, we were in a bookstore. I know people don't buy books nowadays, but he bought a book about the Navy and he said, I think you'd find this interesting. And he handed it to me and I consumed it from cover to cover and had found my life's vocation at that point.
Spencer Levy
Terrific. And Michelle, tell us how you got involved with the military.
Michelle Butters
Well, my father was in the military and my grandfather, but that is actually not what attracted me to it. I actually went to college at University of Nebraska, got my accounting degree. After I got out, I actually wanted to go into the FBI and investigate fraud, but I was too young and they had a hiring freeze on at the time. And at the same time, I got a postcard in the mail. So I actually used that flier that was for the women officer training and decided to go for it. I wanted to see the world. I then thought I could go into the FBI later, but I ended up loving it. I met my husband, who's also a marine, and I ended up staying in for 28 years.
Spencer Levy
Terrific. Terrific. So, Adam, this episode is about the military and labor, and there's such a shortage of labor out there, just generally speaking. Right now, I think the unemployment rate is under 4%, 3.7% or so. It would seem to me that now would be a great time to be helping military folks transition into the private sector.
Adam Rocke
Oh, I 100% agree with that, Spencer. Companies like the ones that are represented today are looking for talent, and no other better place to look for it than the military talent, as the three of us would attach to. And we're obviously biased, but it is talent. And there are thousands of companies like CBRE, who's one of our partners, that recognized that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Hiring Our Heroes Foundation is a great place to find that talent. We have lots of programs, so we've been doing this for over a decade now. We've traveled the globe, no matter where the young men and women are serving. It doesn't matter if it's Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, even Space Force now. If there is a location that young men and women are serving, we'll go there in some capacity to try and present to them not only the educational content and how they transition successfully, but we'll introduce them to great companies again, like CBRE and Cleveland Clinic and what not, that they're looking for the talent. Our young men and women have the skills that corporate America is looking for, right? They have those tangible skills, whether you're an infantryman, whether you're a radioman, whether you're a signaller, cybersecurity or whatnot, they recognize that. But what they're really looking for is those intangible skills, right? Those things about discipline, work ethic, problem solving and critical thinking, right? Your ability to be trained. There's no other organization in the world that trains its young men and women better than the United States military. We've got over 1100 occupational skills, and one of those fit nicely in any business. But we're trainable, and corporate America understands that you can learn. You can learn quickly. And we're willing to train you. So that's what we do. We have virtual events. We have in-person events. We have military spouse events. And we have a wonderful fellowship program which CBRE is involved in, as well, that puts our folks through an internship the last six months of service with the segue into a job position, and it's worked very well. So that's a synopsis of what we do.
Spencer Levy
Just in terms of the ballpark numbers. How many companies do you work with? How many people have you placed? How many people are in your organization?
Adam Rocke
Thousands of companies, honestly. The number is too high and it continues to grow every day. And if it's big or small and you have meaningful careers with pay and benefits that are commensurate to what we had in the military, then we want to talk to you. We want to engage and we want to figure out how we could create pathways to your organization. We have touched over a million people in the last decade, in some way, shape or form.
Spencer Levy
Michelle, I understand you're in industrial and logistics. Tell us about the transition from being in the military in some type of logistics capacity to being in the private sector, in the logistics capacity?
Michelle Butters
Yeah, I would say the supply chain aspect and some of the logistics does relate. I think that the budgeting I had, I was responsible for a lot of budgets. One of my first jobs on a base was managing everything on that base; all of the equipment, all of the buildings, all of the suppliers that came into the base as far as setting up, making sure that the recruits had everything they needed. This was actually at Parris Island, South Carolina, where all, on the East Coast, all of the recruits come in for the Marine Corps. And all of that equipment, we had to make sure that it was accounted for. All the way to when you go overseas, where you're responsible for, again, the contractors, setting up all of the supply chain, all of the equipment that comes in and out. We had around 8,000 sets of gear equipment that the recruits had to wear. So you had to have accountability of that. You also have to manage the maintenance of that equipment and the buildings. It's also about making sure that those recruits have all of the things that they need at the different times a year. So in the winter, for example, even though you think South Carolina, it's not that cold. We absolutely got rain and cold and freezing. So you had to have the right clothing for them to wear as well as the weapons, making sure that we had all of those so they could go out and train. So it's also actual land. There's a lot of land so that we can fire the weapons and make sure that they qualify on that, and the transportation to get them from one side of the base to the other. So there's all of that aspect that go into managing a base and managing that equipment and the supply to get them all of that information they need and all of that assets to make sure they operate effectively.
Spencer Levy
What drew you to the real estate industry?
Michelle Butters
Well, my job today, I have about five different accounts that I oversee that are all in industrial and logistics. Most of those have manufacturing sites, warehousing spaces, and some offices. So we manage both their real estate, their facility management and their project management. Anything that they need us to do outside their core business. I would say the real estate aspect, I first came into Johnson Controls through the HVAC industry, and I actually used the recruiters that found me. A company that was a large company that I could stay with and grow up and move up within the organization. And that's what I wanted. And I’ve pretty much stayed with that my entire career. But I would say the real estate aspect, what I really liked was the managing the people, managing the facilities, the budgeting aspect. That aspect was very similar to what I did in the military. I did have to learn some different things within the HVAC industry. I did not have an engineering degree at the time, so there were some really good programs with the companies that I interviewed with and that's ultimately what attracted me and kept me within the real estate industry.
Spencer Levy
Pat, you are running the facilities for the Cleveland Clinic, one of the largest healthcare systems in the world. Tell us again about your Navy background, and how that helps you with your current role with the Cleveland Clinic.
Pat Rios
Well, I'm very fortunate that my Navy training, and then just to pick up on what Michelle does, the Navy does facilities management and support of the Marines. So planning, design, construction, real estate, you talk about land. We also managed the buildings, we did environmental contracting, etc.. So, very, very seamless transition for me from the military as a civil engineer corps officer, where I managed facilities all over the world, to move into the corporate commercial real estate sector and managing properties for a large global owner like the Cleveland Clinic. So, I got a lot of experience early on as a project manager, project person, and then slowly grew to managing installations and groups of installations and all the issues that get managed in a real estate portfolio. So, super excited to have the opportunity at the Cleveland Clinic, because I feel like I do the same thing I did in the military, but I do it to take care of people, patients now.
Spencer Levy
And when people think of, again, people from outside the healthcare industry, think of the Cleveland Clinic, they, of course, think of the world class hospital facilities. But it’s more than that. They have offices. They have lots of things. Tell us a little bit about the portfolio itself. How diverse it is, how big it is.
Pat Rios
So we manage a 39 million square foot portfolio extending from northeast Ohio through Florida to Abu Dhabi. And our latest offering, we opened one of the most modern and I guess up to date and expansive offerings in the United Kingdom, in London, a couple of years ago. And we have our clinical holdings like you alluded to, Spencer, but you're right. So we have a very diverse portfolio. Not a day passes where I'm not maneuvering from one different type of facility and facility issues to another one, and the complexities that are associated with all of those. So, a very exciting environment to work in.
Spencer Levy
Adam, obviously this is a real estate podcast, but you place people in all kinds of businesses. When you get a recruit, how do you try to help them navigate the new world of all these different choices? Why real estate? Why tech? Why some other industry?
Adam Rocke
There's so many occupations within your industry right now that there is something for every transitioning service member or veteran out there, all right? To include those military spouses, I think what you've got to do is you've got to promote your industry. This podcast is a step in the right direction to do that. So what we try to do at Hiring our Heroes is promote your industry. That's why we're fortunate to be partnered with CBRE and they come and attend our events. But the fact is, what we want to do is we want to showcase great organizations like that, and we want them to sit on stage. They want them to be part of our panels. We want Michelle to come and talk about all the career opportunities and why this is a perfect segue to economic success for you and your family. We’re all over the world. We have multiple jobs and there's opportunity for you to grow and develop within this industry. So, we want to promote that. And we do that in person at panels. We do that virtually, we do on webinars. We do that on social media. This industry is just one of the many industries, though, that we're partnered with, and we try to showcase all of them.
Spencer Levy
Pat, you've now been out of the service for how long? How long have you been in the private sector?
Pat Rios
Oh gosh, now seven years.
Spencer Levy
Seven years. Okay, so tell me about that. Tell me about the transition from military to private sector. The good, the bad, the challenges, the cool parts. What was the single biggest challenge you had transitioning from military to the private sector?
Pat Rios
Great question, Spencer. So I guess, I already had an established career, Like Michelle and Adam. I retired as a captain in the Navy, so I had an established industry reputation, but in the government services industry. First, my wife is a physician, so, son of a physician married to a physician, and she wanted to take some time. I told her that the next 30 years belonged to her and I wanted to give her some time to decide what she wanted to do. And I turned around and I went to immediately transition to working for a company that in the government contracting sector, and had a fine opportunity. Learned a lot about what it takes to be a contractor, a vendor, matter of fact, probably the most, the steepest learning curve I've ever had in a single year, until my wife then, she pursued an opportunity with the Cleveland Clinic. And fortunately, at that point, I fell into an opportunity with the Cleveland Clinic, much like she did. And they immediately recruited me. Matter of fact, one of my former bosses in the Navy worked with the Cleveland Clinic and was instrumental to transitioning me into this environment. And so I guess the transition for me, I felt, was pretty seamless. And I could have stayed in a government service industry, but then transitioned into a commercial sector, that brought a new learning curve and different approach to doing business. And I really enjoyed learning a lot about that. So, the seven years have been an intense period of learning for me and I've really enjoyed it.
Michelle Butters
Spencer I would love to answer that same question, too. So I actually transitioned into the corporate world in 2000. As a captain, I came off active duty, then went into the reserve. So my time was a bit different. And I would say my transition was challenging in a different way. Every time I had drill weekend, I had to transition to reserves and thinking that way, and Monday morning I'd have to transition back to the corporate real estate. So very challenging from that perspective, when I first got off active duty years ago. I would say that the biggest piece of advice that I have for others is really more around networking, making sure that you're getting out there, getting your name out there, especially for the younger folks. Unlike Pat, who had a career, the younger folks don't always have that. And so it's about getting out there, talking to anybody and everybody that they can. Even if it doesn't lead to something, it still helps you understand what it is that you want. As a captain, I didn't know exactly what industry I wanted to go in, so it was about conversations with other folks. What did I really like? I just wanted to lead people – lead Marines, now lead in the civilian world – so anything that would help me do that. And so understanding what was out there, getting to know people, was very key to the success of moving into the right roles.
Spencer Levy
Adam, same question to you: the transition.
Adam Rocke
So I want to talk about, though, just the larger transition for all those young servicemen. They won't always have it as easy as the three of us had it, okay? And there's reasons why. First of all, 86% of our military is enlisted folks, right? And those in this, many of the services do a very, very good job at the education, right? The Air Force has a community college of the Air Force. There's lots of ways to get tuition assistance. Financial services like certifications and licensure, right? But these young men and women have unique skills, right, that they want to transition into their next career. They have to decide, though, what that career is going to be. If you don't figure out what it is you want to do before you transition out, then you will not be successful. So what I tell people is, there’s three things, pieces of advice. It doesn't matter who you are, but what I look at them and I say, figure out what your goals are. What is it you want to do? And back to Michelle's point about a network. This is, a transition is a process. When you treat it as an event, then you won't be successful. But if you start to build the network, as she talked about, you start to identify what industries and careers you want, you start to drive yourself education wise, whether that be a bachelor's degree, an associate’s degree, or some sort of certification licensure before you get out, then you're more apt to be successful when you transition. The ultimate goal is a seamless transition from the DD214 to a job, right? That prevents lots of other negative things. It prevents unemployment, right? It prevents homelessness. It helps our suicide rates that are alarmingly high, as you all know. That's no secret. That helps them go down. Just a lot of things start to come into place if you have a very good transition, right, and into a meaningful career. So what I tell people is, figure out what it is that you want to do, figure out where you want to do it, geographically, and how much money do you need to save yourself? Usually, if you have two of those three things, then you're off to a success. So then you come to Hiring Our Heroes, which we have so many opportunities, not only great companies, but we also have the ability to upskill you, right? And there are programs out there while you're in the military. The SkillBridge policy, which I helped write when we were in the army, that's upskilling. So take advantage of that. Get tied with the organizations like that, that allow young men and women to do the SkillBridge program and upskill.
Spencer Levy
Adam, for just a moment, and I'm going to ask you about the SkillBridge program. Just succinctly, what exactly is it? How does it work?
Adam Rocke
The SkillBridge program is a Department of Defense Policy that allows the services to allow their young service men and women who have decided that they're going to transition out during the last 180 days of their military service, they can attend an apprenticeship program, a pre-apprenticeship program, job training, shadowing or an internship with their commander authorizing to do that. And there are over 3,000 employers that have partnered with the Department of Defense and the military services to allow them to do it. Hiring our Heroes is one of those partners.
Spencer Levy
So let me go back to a statistic you just cited. Did you say that 83% of all folks in the military are enlisted?
Adam Rocke
Yep. 86 is…
Spencer Levy
86%? So that means only 14% are officers, is that right?
Adam Rocke
That's right.
Spencer Levy
Okay. I’ll turn this one to you, Pat. You have to bring in a lot of people onto your team, and they're not all officers. Some of them are enlisted, most of them probably are enlisted. Tell us about that. How you try to figure out what skill set might be right for your team.
Pat Rios
Before we do that, I want to say thank you to Adam. Thank you for the SkillBridge policy. Why I mention that is, my daughter is a first lieutenant in the Army. That's why I don't poke at Army, even though I was in the Navy. She's a cavalry officer and commands scout platoon, and she's getting ready to get out of the service. She wanted to become a lawyer, and she's going through the SkillBridge program. She's stationed in Fairbanks, Alaska, and she's going to do her SkillBridge transition to the Fairbanks DA's office. And so she's super excited about the opportunity. So, I think that's a great program. One that I've seen both the enlisted folks and junior officers utilize. So great, great stuff. Spencer, I guess to answer your particular question, honestly, you know, military has a culture and a dictionary of its own. And translating their skills and how the military classifies them, a lot of junior military folks, they struggle to explain what they did in the military. So one of the things I always talk about with folks that are coming to see me about future employment is like, you have to spend the time to get past the acronyms and the resume, and you got to really get to know the individual. And I think in a lot of cases, as an employer in the clinic, one, we're always shopping for talent and we take the time to, we have an ombudsman just like Adam, inside our company. His name is Andrew Guenther, that runs our Hiring America's Heroes program, and he literally is an ombudsman that gets them multiple interviews and we let them explore potential opportunities within the Cleveland Clinic. And that's been very, very successful, and I participate in that program with them. And that's helping military veterans explain both the intangibles and the tangible skills that they bring to the table. And I think sometimes they struggle, particularly the more junior ones.
Spencer Levy
So, Michelle, one of the things we talk about on the show a lot is the term wellness. And wellness is a very wide term, right? But wellness, part of it is, work-life balance or a state to be work-life harmony. There are few jobs that are more demanding than military, where you're traveling all over the world. And now in logistics with your clients, your clients have assets all over the world. What do you say to people that have transitioned from the military into the private sector and handling this complicated lifestyle? This travel all the time and running into unforeseen issues?
Michelle Butters
So I have absolutely traveled all over the world for my real estate career. Sometimes almost every single week in a year's time. And I would say for me, it's keeping that health and the exercise that we did in the military. Eating healthy, working out every morning. I do still try to work out almost every morning. And I also eat well when I'm on the road. It's very, very difficult for many of us to do that. But I think you have to keep that in mind in order for your mind to stay healthy as well, and to be focused on what you're doing. I think it's also about balancing that, so when you are home, you're taking that time to spend with your family, your friends, whoever that might be, and making sure that you take the time to yourself. And I think sometimes we get caught up and we probably work too hard. I would say, one of the things about the military folks is they're extremely hard workers. They will do whatever you ask of them and they will get it done. So, sometimes we have to think about that. And we were asked to do that in the military. When you're deployed, you don't get, necessarily, a weekend off. You don't necessarily get the evenings off you. You work a lot and you have to balance that in your civilian world because you may have different demands on you than you did in the military.
Adam Rocke
Well, I was going to chime in a little bit from an employer standpoint, though, just in general, from this. Wellness is about a culture that is set in, as Michelle just described, the culture of our military, frankly, about wellness from your routine physical fitness to eating healthy in the chow hall to adequate rest. You know, rest is a weapon and when I was a commander, I used to say everybody needs to get a certain amount of rest, even in combat. Holistically, that was the perspective of the military. But look at the culture. I mean, I think Pat and Michelle would say, you know, it's the culture of the organization that you want to be part of that creates that work-life balance, that creates that wellness for you, that other component of this, that you feel comfortable working with people who have the same values as you do, that have the same work ethic as you. And that creates an aspect of wellness that is beyond nutrition and physical fitness. So I think what's important is, back to the industry here, you need to create a picture of what it's like, what's the culture like at your organization?
Pat Rios
So, it's funny because our culture, the clinic's culture, is rooted in the four founders, and the four founders all returned from France in World War I, and they decided to establish the group practice of medicine. They had been physicians on the battlefields of France. They returned, and our culture started in the military. And there's a rich history of alignment, matter of fact, is well celebrated on Veterans Day and on Memorial Day, etc.. Honestly, we have a number of programs, Adam, to your point, where we bring in military corpsmen, we bring in technicians, and they work alongside of us, and it's an opportunity for them to get to know our culture. I can honestly say, my current service at the Cleveland Clinic, I feel like almost an extension of the service I had when I was in the military. Only difference is, my uniform's different. That’s it.
Spencer Levy
Great. So we're going to ask for some final thoughts, how people get more involved, and maybe we'll start with you, Michelle. What are your final thoughts on transitioning from the military into the private sector? Advice for people that are currently in the military transitioning in, or people who have already transitioned out and may be struggling a bit.
Michelle Butters
I think I would say, one, we have the ability to adapt and get things done. So when you're looking for a military person, know that, first and foremost. They have the leadership training from whether they're a PFC all the way through a colonel. They all have had some sort of leadership training throughout their career and continuously throughout their career. So know that. I think that for employers that are looking for a leader or people that are able to adapt, the military is a place to get that. I would also say that you have to kind of look outside of what their resume says. There's a lot of skills that they have in addition to the leadership, adaptability, flexibility that the military has, but it's not always written in their resume. I had a ordnance maintenance company, a weapons maintenance company, that I had technicians that worked on the equipment that translates very easily to working on HVAC equipment. In fact, one of the Marines actually worked for me in my civilian job, as well. So it does translate. You just have to get that out of them, and it can be a bit of a challenge. But for those that are looking for jobs, you have to think about that. And how does it truly relate to what the job is that you want to go get, and make sure that you are able to communicate that to the employer.
Spencer Levy
Pat, final thoughts from you? Advice to people that are currently in the military and advice to people who have left the military looking to get more established in the private sector, particularly those who may have not found their footing yet.
Pat Rios
And thank you, Spencer. Well, one is, I'd just like to say, constantly, if you're out already, you need to take advantage of the gift you've gotten and your network, your military network. Both those that you know and you have served with, but also the fact that there are thousands of individuals that have been in the military and have a shared common experience with you and that's an opportunity for you to network just based on that shared experience itself. I guess I'd also like to say to people that are thinking about transitioning is, the time to start transitioning is not like I did it, which was a week before I got out, I was retiring from the military. But it's when you think or you know that that event is happening, start immediately. Start working on your network, start working on your resumé, invest in whatever skills you need to make a successful transition. And then for employers, I'd say, hey, it's important to, if you're really serious about hiring military folks, you really got to get past the resume. You have to have a conversation with military folks that are getting out. You really need to understand them, get past the jargon, particularly the younger folks are challenged by that. And then finally, for people like Adam and Michelle, my colleagues here, and myself that are out already and have had a successful career outside the military, part of your obligation and your continued service to the people you served with and trained is for you to reach out to them and help them transition and offering your network or your assistance to understand what opportunities are available to them.
Spencer Levy
Great. So, Adam, final thoughts for you, as well, on people thinking about transitioning, people who have transitioned, including those who haven't found their footing yet, but also, how can our audience get involved with Hiring Our Heroes, your organization, either as a employer or as somebody who just wants to support your organization?
Adam Rocke
Thank you, Spencer, very much, again. First thing for all those transitioning, especially those young men and women, dream big. And when I say dream big, I mean, you could do anything that you want to do if you prepare yourself. When you decide that you're going to transition, build that network. Get those credentials. Build that resume while you're going through, all right? Earn those skills so that your résumé and your abilities are that much stronger, so it makes it seamless when you get out. You may do anything that you want to do in this world, but you have to prepare yourself, okay? And they can do it. The second thing, from an employer standpoint, is, it was alluded to as well, we talked about culture, but what's really important, especially large organizations, is the military hiring program, right? That indicates that you mean business. That you care about the young men and women. That you potentially have pathways for upskilling and growth and whatnot for them by establishing a military program. The CEO of a company making a commitment is very important for taking the next step and having a military program. You’re willing to put resources behind it. You have somebody who was in the military, and could understand and read the resumes and all of that jargon, right? And help them get to the next process. For me, the importance of the resume for a military person, it's not always going to be perfect, but if you have some of the other and it says you were in the military and is willing to at least give you the interview, then you'll sit across the table from them like we're doing here today and have a conversation like we're doing here. And all the goodness in that young man or woman will come out, right? The third thing is, if you're an employer out there, hire a veteran, all right, or military spouse. Why? Because they're damn good. But because they will thrive, right? Give them the opportunity and they will thrive. They'll be committed to your organization just like they were committed to the military. And then the final thing is, how do you get involved? HiringOurHeroes.org, that’s HiringOurHeroes.org. We have lots of programs, lots of ways for you to get involved. And we have thousands of partners, but we're always looking for more.
Spencer Levy
Terrific. Well, on behalf of The Weekly Take, I want to thank our three fantastic guests today, starting with Pat Rios, Executive Director of the Cleveland Clinic. Pat, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Pat Rios
Thank you, Spencer. Thanks for the opportunity. It's a small way I can pay it back to the people I've served with.
Spencer Levy
Great. And Michelle Butters, Senior Managing Director at CBRE. Michelle, great job. Thanks for coming on.
Michelle Butters
Thank you, Spencer. And thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.
Spencer Levy
And Adam Rocke, Senior Director, Hiring Our Heroes. Adam, great job. What a wonderful organization.
Adam Rocke
Yeah. Thank you very much. I'm a soldier for life, but it's an honor to be here, again. Thank you.
Spencer Levy
For more on the topic of our show and if you want to get involved with the program Adam runs, you can find it online at HiringOurHeroes.org. We'll also feature more information and related content on our website, CBRE.com/TheWeeklyTake. We hope you'll share the show as well as subscribe, rate and review us wherever you listen. And for all of you who have reached out via the Talk to Us button on our home page, thanks for the questions and comments. We'll be addressing your feedback on upcoming shows. We'll be back next week with more core real estate insights and perspectives on the economy. For now, thanks for joining us. I'm Spencer Levy. Be smart. Be safe. Be well.
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