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Spencer Levy
In a world that's changing – we're talking climate change, of course, but also the way workplace behaviors and usage are changing, as well as evolutions in community standards, building regulations and more – property managers need to keep up with the times. That's where the collection and analysis of data can play an important role. On this episode, a data and sustainability entrepreneur whose business covers the world and a CBRE Global Property Management leader in a case study of using data as a resource for landlords and occupiers.
Vincent Bryant
You need to understand the building on a very practical basis, to know it physically, to know the people inside it. And this is why I think property managers have instrumental roles to play and to make all these insights, to make all these data reliable and actionable.
Spencer Levy
That's Vincent Bryant, Co-Founder and CEO of Deepki, a global data intelligence leader based in Paris and operating in 65 countries, monitoring billions of square feet of property with a primary focus on collecting data to optimize the performance of real estate.
Emma Buckland
So the idea that the way we can manage a building can actually have a positive impact on community and environment, a group of citizens using that asset every day – that's actually been a really important way to drive meaning and purpose into our team's work.
Spencer Levy
And that's Emma Buckland, CBRE’s Global President of Property Management. Emma originally joined the company's UK division and now from the company's Dallas headquarters, oversees the management of more than 3 billion square feet of space around the world, part of which involves a new strategic partnership with Deepki. Coming up, property management and the role of data in smart, sustainable building strategies, improving returns on investment and more. Where we are now, where more or better data is needed, and where there are opportunities for data to support change for the future. I'm Spencer Levy, and that's right now on The Weekly Take.
Spencer Levy
Welcome to The Weekly Take, Emma Buckland. Emma, thanks for coming out.
Emma Buckland
Thank you for having me, Spence. It's great to be here.
Spencer Levy
And then our new partner, Vincent Bryant. Vincent, thanks for joining the show.
Vincent Bryant
Thank you for having me. Very honored.
Spencer Levy
Great to have you here. Actually just for our listeners' benefit, Vincent is actually from the Bronx in New York. He put on a French accent because he's making it sound–I’m just messing with you, Vincent. It's all good. Now Vincent, data is at the core of everything that you do. Just give us a high level overview of what you do to both collect and analyze that data from a typical landlord.
Vincent Bryant
We have 400 employees whose job is to help our customers collect data, make it reliable because you always have gaps into your data sets, and we collect data from various sources. It can be utilities customer portals. It can be our customer's ERP, our amazing property management partners software, as well. We enrich this data with open data. And thanks to all this material, we create KPIs, insights that help them figure out how I can leverage these data to make the right investment. Should I sell this asset because it's too crappy, or should I reestablish it? If I reestablish it, what should I start with? Should I work on the outdoor wall insulation? Should I work with HVAC systems, etc., etc.? And it's absolutely key to have actual information in order to figure out what to do, because this type of investment, they are too important for our common customers.
Spencer Levy
And Vincent, let's go a little bit granular for a sec. There are other groups in the industry that do similar things to Deepki. Tell us a little bit about what your competitive advantage is.
Vincent Bryant
Yeah, actually the research industry is aligned with the Paris Agreement in terms of target and objective. And we have a lot of people that have started their ventures into this industry. And so, we today count more than 200 competitors in the world. And that's true that we haven't found, yet, somebody bigger than us, which we are very proud of. And we think that the reason why we managed to grow that fast is because we first combine technology and advisory, and you need both. A self-service platform is an empty platform and advisory alone is not scalable. So in order to help real estate actors to make it happen, you need to combine both and especially you are stronger if you have partners like CBRE. The second point is, a lot of the players in the market are either on the very technical side, use energy management system on one hand or with disclosure platforms on the other hand. But we think that you need to be both, and actually, more than that. You need to have in-house data collection capabilities, because at the end, ultimate customers will make decisions that will significantly impact the value of the assets. Then to make these decisions, they need to have good plans, good investment scenarios, but also good insights, and based on that, good KPIs, and based on that, good data. And I will finish with the last point, and probably stop talking. We also benefit from Europe experience and maturity on that field. I don't know exactly why. Is it because of relations? Is it of all other reasons? But, we spent the past ten years building our technology and expertise first in Europe. And I think that at some point on that matter, we have built some interesting assets for other countries.
Spencer Levy
CBRE announced a strategic partnership with Deepki last year. Emma, tell us about the deal.
Emma Buckland
Well, there's basically three parts, Spence, and we're very excited about it, as you said at the beginning. First of all, and in some ways, kind of most importantly from an operational perspective, we're going to be deploying the Deepki Ready tool, which is a sustainability data intelligence platform across all 42 of our global markets. And that's going to be our sole sustainability data collection platform. The second element is that we're going to be a reseller of Deepki. So that means that we can sell Deepki as part of our services to clients. And then the last piece is we've also made a strategic investment into Deepki. So that means we can influence the roadmap and we can help to partner with them to further improve their products for the benefit of property management clients all around the world. So, we're really excited about each piece of that.
Spencer Levy
So if you were to pick one thing of the key advantage of Deepki for our clients, is it the data aggregation and the insights we gain from that?
Emma Buckland
And that ability to share best practices between markets. As we continue this discussion today, we might talk more about some of the differences we see in different geographies. But certainly we would see some parts of the world, like Europe, being more advanced for various different reasons and being able to take some of those best practices from Europe, for example, and being able to share them with the same client in the U.S, I think is a unique position that we're going to be in from a property management perspective, when a lot of these things really are about day to day action planning and interventions in the building. So the decisions we make around supply chain and other different things we can do to reduce carbon emissions in the asset so that we can actually create that connectivity between our teams around the world. I think clients look at a firm like ours and expect from us, and sometimes it can be a little difficult because of our size and scale to achieve that. So we really think Deepki is going to be an integral part in allowing us to deliver on our promise of being globally connected, in terms of sharing those best practices with our property management teams.
Vincent Bryant
Thanks Emma for all of these kind words. Look, Spencer. Actually, first, transitioning towards net zero in our industry won't happen without good data and good insights, but also more importantly, also with the involvement of property managers. Their role is absolutely instrumental to make it happen, because many reasons, but managing relationship with tenants is key to onboard them in this sustainability journey, because you need to know how the building works from an usage point of view, but also from a technical standpoint. So for all these reasons, amongst others, it's absolutely key to have these players steering the journey. Joining forces together, we are leveraging both CBRE’s unique expertise on real estate and customer portfolio, but also our technological and advisory capabilities. And together, we are really committed to fight climate change within the industry.
Spencer Levy
So Emma, I think it's no surprise that Vincent is in Europe. And in part because Europe has been a leader in sustainability and measurement, the U.S has been a bit of a laggard. Is this our means of trying to catch up?
Emma Buckland
Yeah, I think it's definitely true to say that the U.S. and the EU differ a lot, and a lot of that's driven by regulation but also measurement and associated penalties and incentives that have been put in place. But I definitely think the U.S. is catching up and the EU has definitely been more proactive in terms of these regulations. But also what we know is important to investors, which is things like the voluntary disclosure schemes like GRESB (Global Real Estate Sustainability Benchmark), as an example. So I definitely think as we look at our business globally, we definitely expect to see more convergence around the world. And so there'll definitely be increased standardization of services, including this, as part of our property management sort of expectation. But I certainly think as we think about the U.S. policy, more regulation, and we know that's happening right now, we're definitely going to see, I think, America under the same types of pressures that that we see in Europe, and accordingly, property management is going to need to pivot to support those needs for investors.
Vincent Bryant
I can't agree more with what you just said, but what I could add is, especially global players, U.S. institute, they tend to align with higher standards in the world. And that's for a reason I don't really understand. The way Europe started going to be a little bit earlier. However, and what is interesting to see, is that then some of them not only try to align with higher standards, but also to be ahead of the market. And we have numerous names we could obviously share between common customers we have with Emma, where we can see that there is more and more interest to have. Not ESG, but sustainability strategy, in a bid to protect the value of their assets and to impact positively, the world and especially climate change.
Spencer Levy
So let me talk about the elephant sitting in the corner of the room over here. And that elephant is the economy is pretty tough right now, particularly for office. And because of that, people are cutting back and they're throwing nickels around like manhole covers. And some people might argue that sustainability might be less important today than it was three years ago. What's your point of view, Emma?
Emma Buckland
Well, if we talk about office specifically, attractiveness is really important. So certainly in premium office spaces, we know that tenants care deeply about the environment around them and we know that they're prepared potentially to pay a premium or at least expect as a minimum standard, that there's going to be some kind of a plan for the decarbonization of that asset. And that's about not just the impact they're having on the environment, but also their ability to attract and retain talent. Because increasingly for individuals, that's a really important thing. The impact for Gen Z and Millennials that the office is having on the wider world. But I also think, especially if we just talk about the U.S. Spence, we're on, I know, a predominantly… the audience for this podcast is likely to be based in North America. I think it is really important to say that regulation, increasing regulation is going to continue to shape what investors are forced to do. So whilst it might not be the case that perhaps all investors proactively embrace all principles of sustainability, as they start to see more and more regulation come into place and more and more, kind of punitive impact of them not aligning to those regulations that we are increasingly seeing our investor clients make plans to try to create a decarbonization agenda for their asset. So I think it's a combination of attractiveness for tenants, but also really, practically speaking, around, you know, working to support the regulatory agenda as well as obviously the wider investment agenda that many of our investor clients have, and the importance of sustainability is part of that.
Vincent Bryant
If I may add something to Emma’s point, we use a lot of different words here: ESG, sustainability, decarbonization and they are all relevant. But I do like the way, in the U.S., we tend to talk more about sustainability because sustainable decision making and value-led making decisions are not mutually exclusive. Emma used to say during another meeting, and, they need to avoid asset managers see their assets becoming stranded. And the protection of the variation of the asset is absolutely instrumental. And now it's no longer, some, you know, some box to fill in during a due diligence process. But it's, okay, if I don't want to lose value on my assets to build on a mass point, I really took the early south and to make the right choices, the right investments, in order to save and protect the value of my asset. With impact investing, which come afterwards, I think this is the next step. And it's more about how to create more value from this way of seeing things. So I think the vocabulary here is quite important, because we tend to mix things up sometimes, and I hope that at the end it will be the death of ESG and the birth of impact investing.
Spencer Levy
Well we've had discussions of impact investing on this show several times before. And the bottom line for all of our large impact investing bonds, and there were dozens of them out there, is that they suggest that they can get the same, if not better, returns on their assets than they can for any other dollar that they invest in a fund that is not particularly focused on impact investing. And I think that's critical. I think you need to have that neutrality at worst, to non-, so to speak, impact investing funds. What's your point of view on that?
Vincent Bryant
Yeah that's true, actually. I agree with you. There is no way to invest into something if it's not profitable. Sometimes what we don't have into business plans and business model is the outcome of the externalities of everything we do with buildings. If we integrate these externalities into the business plans, then it becomes relevant. Some of our customers, they assimilate carbon tax into their business models in order to take into account, and to get a better payback time, on their investments, because they know that at some point they will face a similar cost if they don't provide more carbon neutral asset to the market. And so I think at the end, either if you reduce the Op-Ex or if you protect the value of your assets, in both cases this is profitable investment to make, and we need to consider them as financially profitable investments.
Spencer Levy
There's an element here that I think has not gotten enough airtime, which is embedded carbon. I spoke to our head of sustainability the other day who said that if you build a new building, even if it's the greenest building you could build, with emissions and energy, it still could take you 30 to 40 years to get the payback on the structure. Are we moving in any direction to measure embedded carbon? And do you have a point of view?
Vincent Bryant
Yeah, absolutely. And actually, you're right. It can happen, indeed. But, it really depends on two things, mainly. First off, the technical status of the existing buildings. And the second point is the usage in the future of the building. On average, reusing an existing structure, an existing building, instead of building a new one, helps you save 50% of the CO2 emissions linked to the embodied CO2. This is an average. It really depends on an asset, one building to another. And this is exactly the reason why we started developing, two years ago, this embodied CO2 capabilities and then decided to acquire a Nooco, it's to get the ability to assess building for building, exactly what you just mentioned. Which is, okay, should I refurbish it? Should I restructure it? Should I just erase it and start with a brand new one? And so this is the type of questions we help our customers answer.
Spencer Levy
We talked a moment ago about the EU being ahead of the game as it relates to the United States. What about APAC? What about the rest of the world? Tell us about how measurement differs region to region.
Vincent Bryant
Yeah, of course different markets, different regulations, different maturities, yes, Europe at some point is ahead, due to certainly the history of its regulation. Due to other reasons I don't fully understand, but it is the case, indeed, and what we see with practical basis. However, even though the regulation of the federal role in the U.S. is not as advanced as it is in Europe, still you have cities and states that are very ahead of the market, even Europe. If you consider, for instance, New York City with Local 97 or the state of California with embodied CO2 regulation, recent regulation last September. So you start seeing things happening that are very, very good. And you have also states and cities that are very, very late on that matter, if not, sometimes making decisions that goes against sustainability from a regulatory standpoint. On the APAC, it's a very diversified market, very similar to Europe from this perspective, but very, very different, regulatory frameworks, very different levels of maturity. And so at some point, Australia may have some very interesting relations around NABERS. I'm sure Emma could build on this point with recent trips and teams there, of course. But 2024 is for instance, the year for Singapore, the climate change year at the governmental level, priority. That's very new, very first time they'll handle this topic at this level of the country. And so we may see amazing things happening there. And Japan used to be ahead of the market for historical reasons, with limited energy resources. 20 years ago, the prime minister in Japan used to, every 1st of July, I don't remember exactly when during summer, taking off his tie to show people that now to save refrigeration and, air conditioning, we should all change the way we dress, so that we can save a little bit of energy. And it was 20 years ago. So, I think the level of maturity may differ from a country to another, that's for sure. But what we start seeing is, you have not only regulation changing very fast in all these countries, but also and most importantly, you have global players, global pensions and insurances, real estate players that don't wait for the regulation locally to make big decisions at the global level or wherever their portfolio is located. And what we start seeing is clearly that private companies or listed companies start being the main drivers of the change, locally on different markets.
Spencer Levy
Well I think it's fair to say that there's been some pushback recently.
Vincent Bryant
Indeed.
Spencer Levy
And so the question I have for you is, given that, does that change the trajectory of where you think regulations are going globally?
Vincent Bryant
That's a very good question. You have players in the markets, states, companies want to stop having too much regulation. But I think first it's a must have. We can't afford to avoid this topic and especially climate change. And second, at some point in some geographies, yes, we have enough regulations. Now, just let's implement them. And what I can’t see from my perspective, and I would love to have Emma’s point of view on that is, the most advanced and innovative real estate companies, they know they need to change and they know these crucial requirements and they are doing it and start doing it. I'm not obviously talking about small players that fight to survive, here.
Emma Buckland
Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, I think there are definitely organizations at the moment seeking to, especially with major exposure to office, right, who are seeking to manage cost. And I think additional, really significant additional amounts of CapEx with a very long term payback at this point are probably not as attractive as they might be another point in the cycle. But I think there are still, even in organizations working to manage cost down, there are still opportunities to take with a sustainability lens that help manage cost down and increase NOI, for sure. But I also think, as you save and so on, there's a large amount of institutional clients and frankly, institutional capital, looking for the sustainability principles to continue to be kind of adhered to. And I think there's probably four things driving that. One is obviously, we know regulation is an increasing factor in most markets around the world and naturally just to respond to your prior point, but so in the U.S. right now, I think there are 28 states where some type of regulation has been passed or is due to be passed. So it’s definitely starting, even in America, to be a much more prevalent thing than we've obviously seen historically. I think the other pieces really are attracting tenants. And to your point, in terms of Asia, I think that's something that the Asian market has probably been more focused on. So tenants have been more focus on sustainability requirements, and that's driven the decision making of landlords around the prioritization of this historically, perhaps a bit quicker than we've seen in other parts of the world. But the other two pieces are really, really around the financial element. So I think increasingly there's a conversation about access to capital. So can clients achieve access to capital if they focus on ESG criteria at more preferential rates? And so that's also evolving the conversation, for sure. But also this concept that there is truly a kind of brown discount. So buildings which are not going to trade today but are going to trade in the next 5 or 10 years, if we don't take the right steps from a sustainability perspective, is there an impact to value? And I think increasingly the data that we're collecting would start to potentially support that.
Spencer Levy
So Emma, looking broadly at our clients in the U.S., Europe, Asia, we already discussed that there is differences between them as it relates to how important sustainability is based upon local regulations. What are some of the major differences you might see if you were to compare and contrast Europe, U.S., Asia?
Emma Buckland
I think the relative maturity is really the big thing that kind of jumps out. So certainly, I think if we take somewhere like Australia, which is where NABERS was originally birthed and is now being scaled in in places like the UK, they've been for ten years plus measuring elements of sustainability that they consider really just to be part of general practice now, which are only just getting increased, introduced into the U.S. as an example. So I think there really is a sort of government and regulatory framework that drives the respective kind of adoption levels in different markets. But I think the other piece… Spence, you kind of touched on cost earlier on. I think the other thing that really drives probably all owners is anything that can ultimately save costs. And I think it's important to think about sustainability as really an opportunity to be efficient in the way that we manage the asset, right? So it's not all about adding more cost in, and it's actually ideally about reducing cost in the way that we operate. And I think increasingly that is becoming something that the owners understand and are prepared to invest in in order to kind of achieve outcomes. We talk a little bit in property management about this idea of being mean, lean and clean. And I know you like a little rhyming phrase. When we say mean, we really think about kind of optimizing the building to minimize energy waste, which is opportunity number one. When we say lean, we really mean thinking about replacing with efficient alternatives when we're upgrading or replacing plant and equipment. And so things like LED lighting or high efficiency HVAC or building controls, which are linked to sensors. So how do we become leaner in the way we operate the asset? And then from a clean perspective, really thinking about where we're sourcing our energy from. So can we switch to a renewable energy source or can we invest in onsite or community based renewable energy schemes? So they are the sorts of things that I think increasingly are on investors’ minds. So how can we potentially make CapEx investment that really allows us to reduce Op-Ex over time? And actually, what types of savings can be made potentially straight out of the gate if individuals or management teams haven't been focused on trying to optimize the building?
Spencer Levy
Well, I like the mean, lean and clean. I'm going to be stealing that from you Emma.
Emma Buckland
I thought you might.
Spencer Levy
They say good authors borrow, great authors steal. I'm stealing that.
Emma Buckland
Good, I’m glad.
Spencer Levy
So Vincent, if I could turn to you for a second. Tell me where you think we are at the best stage of measurement. Like we do a really good job measuring this, but what is the next bridge to climb or bridge to cross when it comes to something that we don't do a good job measuring today?
Vincent Bryant
Getting the right intel, insights from reliable data used to be the hardest part, because you need to get actual, reliable and representative data in order to make the right decisions and then to implement these decisions to get the outcomes you are looking for. I wouldn't say that this is solved because obviously each requires a lot of efforts, from real estate players and the role of property managers is absolutely instrumental. We used to see that as managers, coming back to the beginning of the years, 2000, etc., where do we stop talking buildings and stop talking about assets? And we had a lot of financiers who invested into this industry, which is a great industry. But if you want to manage it properly, my good saying is, you need to understand the building on a very practical basis to know it physically, to know the people inside it. And that is why I think property managers have an instrumental role to play and to make all these insights, to make all these data reliable and actionable. Once we say that, and again, we have the technology to do it properly. It's just a user investment with the support of property management companies like, obviously, CBRE. The second part, which is I think the hardest, is the implementation of actions. In every country, you need more workers in order to refurbish and build buildings. And you not only need thousands of arms to do it, but you also need skills for people. And on that matter, I think we need to retrain absolutely almost everybody actually. Because the way you change and you refurbish a window, which is double glazing window, blah blah blah, with a triple glazing one and no thermal bridges, it’s very, very different from the way we used to do it. And that's why we, in this time, and effort to make sure that all these people do their job properly. Having enough people to do it and do it properly. The last part of this is clearly the shortage on material. Now, if you want to acquire a new heat pump on a given office building, it requires months to be delivered and to ship it and to retrieve it, etc. and to install it. And I think there is also here, a lot of concern. So, the earlier companies implement and invest into refurbishment, the better. Because I think we won't have on the market, enough skillful people and enough resources to do it properly. So first served, best served.
Spencer Levy
So this episode is primarily around measurement related to sustainability. But measurement at the building, the Internet of Things, goes way beyond that. And I know that your company, Vincent, does more than just sustainability measurement. What other types of things are you measuring today? What else would you like to be able to measure if you could, as relates to the performance of the building?
Vincent Bryant
The big next step is to not only take into account the sustainable KPIs and data, and to build insights about them, but also to link that to the financial assessment and the profitability of the different buildings. So, taking into account the different business models and the different expertise, local expertise, on asset valuation will be more and more relevant insights we’re going to build for our customers or on our customers behalf through our partners or directly, in order to actually help asset managers to build their own secret sauce. Because at the end, it will be always asset manager’s job to build strategy where they make money with assets, and they will choose to make a little bit more social or a little bit more governance, a little bit more environment. A little bit more of this or this. “Ceci ou cela,” as we say in French. But we are here to provide the different KPIs and insights so they can make the right decisions.
Spencer Levy
A little bit country, a little bit rock and roll. Anybody know who that came from?
Emma Buckland
No.
Spencer Levy
That was Donny and Marie Osmond.
Emma Buckland
Okay. Classics.
Spencer Levy
First reference to Donny and Marie Osmond on this show. I will tell you that. So Emma, I would like to ask you first for final thoughts of where we are today from a sustainability, measurement standpoint, our partnership with Vincent and with Deepki, and what you see as the next step moving forward, for the relationship and our clients.
Emma Buckland
Thank you. Well, we're in a really excited place. So we announced this partnership and investment in the middle of last year. We're in the process now of rolling out Deepki in the U.S. And then our next major target market is going to be Australia. And so we really have an ambition in the next 12 to 18 months for Deepki to be the data collection platform across all of our managed assets. And obviously, as Vincent continues to develop the business and make investments and acquisitions like the one you talked about earlier on Nooco, that will add more and more capabilities to what we're able to offer to our clients. But we really want to try to get to a place where we can steer clients to make the best decisions that they can with their buildings, and have our management teams be a really active part of helping to create value and helping to drive performance in those buildings in every part of the world that we manage. So we're really excited about the partnership, and we're really excited about the potential for property management to play a really active role in making the world around us a better place. So that's what we're focused on.
Spencer Levy
What's next? I know we talked sidebar about linking property management data around sustainability to more of investment decisions. Vincent, what's your point of view?
Vincent Bryan
Again, from a landlord perspective, they need to build their own secret sauce that make that portfolio more profitable and more efficient. And to do so, they need to have some inputs coming from day to day business: the value of the asset, the amount of CapEx invested into the asset, the occupancy rate, etc., But our job at Deepki is to collect technical information and sustainable information to feed their models so that they can all have their own secret sauce to make the right decision. So this is clearly where we are going to have more and more impact. And also where we could help, is to share our data with experts on valuation, because these people tend to need more and more data in order to figure out what is the impact from a statistical point of view of Brown discounting and Green Premium. So this is obviously also something we work on. And this is a reason why we launched the ESG index.
Emma Buckland
I think Vincent's kind of hit on all the same points. But certainly we are seeing landlords more and more focused on data aggregation and the ability to be able to put, sort of what seemed to be disparate data sets together to try to drive a story about performance. And so certainly, we're seeing the typical commercial data you'd expect around things like rent rolls and vacancy and those types of things, alongside things like the operational data. So understanding how people are using a building, what we see occupancy levels like day to day usage of the asset, those types of things, and then alongside then the sustainability data set. And I think really the big question for most asset investment managers now is how do they bring those things together to create the type of insights that really tell them where the performance is going? And so to Vincent’s point, I think that's why we're seeing more and more focus on accurate and timely collection of sustainability data so that they can overlay on those other data sets and start to really understand the total holistic portfolio performance. And I don't know that anybody's quite got there yet, but I think we're definitely seeing lots and lots of landlords work actively on how to try to create the most actionable insights they can from all of the data points that they've got.
Spencer
And I think to use Vincent's very good simplification, the secret sauce is going to be different for each landlord
Emma Buckland
Right.
Spencer Levy
Each landlord puts different weight in demographics or labor or walkability or different factors. So this is not a one size fits all. It is a building block for what the landlord feels is most important. Well, on behalf of The Weekly Take, I would like to first not mispronounce your first name. Vincent, did I get it right that time?
Vincent Bryant
Amazing. Thank you Spencer, and thank you for accepting my French accent.
Spencer Levy
You bet. Vincent Bryant. I'm trying, I'm trying. Even though you're from the Bronx. Vincent Bryant, CEO and Co-founder of Deepki, a terrific company that focuses on measuring sustainable outcomes for companies, for landlords and occupiers. Well done, Vincent.
Vincent Bryant
Thank you very much, Spencer. Talk to you soon.
Spencer Levy
And then our own Emma Buckland making a repeat appearance on our show. Great job, Emma. Global President, Property Management, CBRE. Thank you.
Emma Buckland
Thank you, Spence. Lovely to be here. Thank you so much.
Spencer Levy
You can find lots of data about this show and related content on our homepage, CBRE.com/TheWeeklyTake. The data we'd like to get back is your take on topics you'd be interested in our show covering. So send us your feedback, and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review us wherever you listen. We'll return with more informative perspectives and practical takeaways in the weeks to come, including a study of higher education in commercial real estate and a chat with an educator, consultant and author who specializes in high growth business strategy. Stay tuned for those conversations coming soon, and more. Thanks for joining us. I'm Spencer Levy. Be smart. Be safe. Be well.
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